curious what everybody is dialing in to chat with on these boards, for those doing it on retro hardware :)

over here i have an Amiga 600 + ACA620 accelerator online with an Orinoco
Gold card, Prism2 drivers under AmiTCP and DCTelnet for a terminal
not *exactly* how it would've been done in the day, but hey, it works :P

i'm hoping to build an ESP8266 wi-fi modem for my 500 eventually to dial with that too

... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

I am using iCY TERM 0.7.4 on a water cooled i7.

I've got one foot in the best of both worlds.


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
---
* Origin: Shurato's Heavenly Sphere telnet://shsbbs.net (21:2/148)

curious what everybody is dialing in to chat with on these boards, for those doing it on retro hardware :)

I'm using a 20Mhz 286 clone build. Got a 3com 3c509 network card & am currently using Procomm Plus on Windows 3.11 as my telnet client. Currently I'm experimenting with DOS serial port based comms software with a lantronix serial port to ethernet device. The windows setup is functional but a bit slow so playing with dos based software ATM to see what it's like.

over here i have an Amiga 600 + ACA620 accelerator online with an Orinoco Gold card, Prism2 drivers under AmiTCP and DCTelnet for a terminal
not *exactly* how it would've been done in the day, but hey, it works :P

Nice! Never got to play with an Amiga back in the day so don't know much about them. How well does you setup work? Was it difficult to setup?

... "Bother," said Pooh, as he sold smokes to school-kids.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

i'm hoping to build an ESP8266 wi-fi modem for my 500 eventually to dial with that too

Sounds interesting, let us know how that works out and how you get it working with your amiga.

... If Death calls, take a message. I'll get back to him.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

curious what everybody is dialing in to chat with on these boards, for those doing it on retro hardware :)

For the most part, SyncTERM on the regular daily drive. I'm in the process
of sorting out the pooty room, having just got some benches installed, I
expect to be running with the IIgs again soon. Usually I serial it to a Raspi and telnet from there, but have also whipped up a couple of Wi-Modems in the past. I think I still have makings for one here.. should give it a belt again... had trouble with serial converters at one stage though.

On the II be it an e, c or gs the usual terminal software is ProTerm if text
is good enough. Its ANSI/VT100 is usually not solid enough for games though. AGATE on a c or e will give better ANSI emulation thats all its designed to
do, but processing limitations will leave you at ~9600 otherwise you'll get over runs particularly on dense pages. This is in glorious b&w the only way
to get enough screen resolution to have 80chrs. The GS will also give you MegaTerm which while still hamstrung by available resolution does give colour and a pretty good rendering of most pages, again limited to ~9600 for the
same reason rendering takes to long.


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Nice! Never got to play with an Amiga back in the day so don't know much about them. How well does you setup work? Was it difficult to setup?

it's pretty good, the whole Workbench experience is a little cryptic at worst having to dig around in old forums sometimes with bitrotten links to try to figure out how things work, but beyond that it's not too difficult once you
get the hang of it. i'm sure it would've been more intuitive if i had grown
up with it instead of Windows machines around the same time.

the part setting up a wi-fi card and TCP stack, you just need to find the
right combination of hardware and software. the Orinoco Gold card which has
the supported chipset i found on eBay for about 15 quid and it was, of all other things in my Amiga, the one that worked first try. really surprised me

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

it's pretty good, the whole Workbench experience is a little cryptic at worst having to dig around in old forums sometimes with bitrotten links
to try to figure out how things work, but beyond that it's not too

Oh how I feel your pain! Getting my 286 setup and going has been similarly frustrating, unfortunately a lot of the pages that contain the knowledge and software four our favorite retro PC are slowly rotting away. I've had my share of frustration, having found a link to something interesting in a VCFed forum only to discover it's dead. Seem to be lots of zombie websites with dead links as well.

difficult once you get the hang of it. i'm sure it would've been more intuitive if i had grown up with it instead of Windows machines around
the same time.

So what drew you to the Amiga then if don't mind me asking? I've gone the retro 286 PC route because that is the first computer my family had, what's your interest & what cool things are you planning to do/try with it?

... Init string? No, looks like old rope.....

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Hey maple,

It's fuzion here btw, this is my standard user test account. ;)

Great to see someone using the echomail feeds on our board, things have been
a little quiet from our end recently.

curious what everybody is dialing in to chat with on these boards, for those doing it on retro hardware :)

I use a few different clients to mix things up a bit but my goto's are:

SyncTERM and occasionally NetRunner v2.oo on the PC
DCTelnet 1.6 via WinUAE (my A600 needs a psu project finishing)

also DCTelnet via PiMiga on my RPi.


I much prefer using DCTelnet for the authenticity (as we are an Amiga orientated board using Topaz font after all) but I use SyncTerm for any
back door tweaking and maintenance that needs doing.

Cheers!

... THE fIRST sTEP iS tO tAKE oFF tHE cAPS lOCK

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

So what drew you to the Amiga then if don't mind me asking?

due to a few factors we never had any of the latest and greatest, so my computers were always a couple of generations behind the curve. some may
think i was too young to have grown with WfW3.11 but that and DOS were where
i cut my teeth :)

in general, i attribute my affinity for older hardware to that. i like to
make the most out of things that are meant to be obsolete.

Amiga computers were never popular where i lived due to import prices, we
had Apple clones and MSX, i managed to get this 600 in 2007 in a very, very poor condition. it took me about a decade of repairs to get it to full
working order it is today. i just really enjoy giving these machines new life

by trade my interests netted me low level embedded software engineering jobs
so i have little to complain about :)

... Amigaaaaaaaaaa

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: maple to All on Sat Jun 08 2024 22:28:18

Hi, Maple.

curious what everybody is dialing in to chat with on these boards, for those doing it on retro hardware :)

At this precise moment, I'm dialed in on an Acorn A3020 - ARM 250, 2MB RAM. Using terminal software I made / am still working on for the job as I didn't like the existing stuff I could get up and running :)

i'm hoping to build an ESP8266 wi-fi modem for my 500 eventually to dial with that too

Same - I bought a few since they're so cheap. Lucky, really, as I blew the first ESP up (grounded pins while in use) and one of the MAX232s died on me, so spares came in handy!

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

... Amigaaaaaaaaaa

Long live the Amiga :)
Currently own an Amiga 1200 & 600

... APPLE: It may be slow, but at least it's expensive.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Who Dares Wins Amiga BBS (21:1/124)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: klunk to maple on Mon Jun 10 2024 10:39 pm

Long live the Amiga :)
Currently own an Amiga 1200 & 600

If Amiga had come out as the most popular computer (rather than IBM PC compatibles), I wonder what a modern Amiga would be like..

Nightfox

I use modern (well five-year-old macintosh) computers and telnet to
connect- but it's to my BBS which is run on a 68k Macintosh (Q800)
running the Subtext BBS so that counts as retro.

Every once in a while I'll use an Atari 800 or Apple IIc to test something
I help with the Fujinet Project (fujinet.online) which connects
an ESP32 based board to 8bits for network disk access as well as
standard 'comms' via wifi. Still connect to my Mac's BBS.

-andy

* Origin: Massive BBS | bbs.diller.org (21:3/178)

If Amiga had come out as the most popular computer (rather than IBM PC compatibles), I wonder what a modern Amiga would be like..

Like a modern PC? In essence all roads lead to Rome as they say.


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Spectre to Nightfox on Wed Jun 12 2024 01:52:00

If Amiga had come out as the most popular computer (rather than IBM PC compatibles), I wonder what a modern Amiga would be like..

Like a modern PC? In essence all roads lead to Rome as they say.

Yup, that was going to be my suggestion. We currently have x86, ARM and a bunch of other options for hardware, running Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS, Android... controversially I'm going to say the user experience isn't hugely different across the board, for casual users at least.

I think the things that made the Amiga so incredible at its time were the special purpose chips for sound, blitting, graphics, etc - they really enabled new and wonderful things. Nowadays we almost have too much grunt to know what to do with it, everything runs in "true colour" modes, high quality sound is standard... I'm not sure where you could differentiate for capabilities.

But then, I guess that's the point - not many people could have imagined the Amiga's capabilities when it came out.

I would say if we "squeezed the juice" out of modern hardware like we did back in those days it could be something spectacular. Though it would probably not be a "wow, look at those graphics" spectacle, more a "look how quick my 400 browser tabs open" spectacle :)

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Hi Maple,

On Saturday June 08 2024, Maple said to All:

over here i have an Amiga 600 + ACA620 accelerator online with an
Orinoco Gold card, Prism2 drivers under AmiTCP and DCTelnet for a
terminal not *exactly* how it would've been done in the day, but hey, it works :P

DCTelnet is about the best telnet client for the Amiga... Normal terminal programs can also work with tools like telser, but they add a extra layer of issues.

PCMCIA network cards are trickey on the Amiga. Some should work, but they
dont. I have a 3Com based 3C562D/3C563D Etherlink III, also a WIFI card
(From Amigakit, can't remember the make). That I use in my A1200.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)

Hi Maple,

On Sunday June 09 2024, Maple said to kirkspragg:

it's pretty good, the whole Workbench experience is a little cryptic at worst having to dig around in old forums sometimes with bitrotten links
to try to figure out how things work, but beyond that it's not too difficult once you get the hang of it. i'm sure it would've been more intuitive if i had grown up with it instead of Windows machines around
the same time.

Some tips for working with workbenck:

Left Amiga key + M/N: Switch between the current running full sceen
programs.

Install "MagigMenu", to allow the top workbench menu's to appear where ever
you right click.

The right most "box" on a open folder will switch it between a folder under
it or bring it to the front.

The box to the left of the one above will shrink the open folder.

To have workbench remember the layout/size of a window/folder. Right click
on workbench menu, and then choose "Snapshot->All" will save the
layout/size.


\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Spectre to Nightfox on Wed Jun 12 2024 01:52 am

If Amiga had come out as the most popular computer (rather than IBM PC
compatibles), I wonder what a modern Amiga would be like..

Like a modern PC? In essence all roads lead to Rome as they say.

True, though I was thinking of specifics. Amiga was ahead of its time, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see where they'd be today if they came out on top. It might be interesting to see AmigaOS rather than Windows, and where the hardware might be today, and if there would be as big of an industry of selling PC parts for people who like to build their own computer, etc..

Nightfox

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Bob Worm to Spectre on Tue Jun 11 2024 07:50 am

I would say if we "squeezed the juice" out of modern hardware like we did back in those days it could be something spectacular. Though it would probably not be a "wow, look at those graphics" spectacle, more a "look how quick my 400 browser tabs open" spectacle :)

That's true. One thing I've often thought is that advances in computers these days aren't really as noticeable and don't seem as signficant as they used to be. I think you'd have to be doing something computationally intensive these days to see a big noticeable difference in a computer upgrade.

Nightfox

compatibles), I wonder what a modern Amiga would be like..

Like a modern PC? In essence all roads lead to Rome as they say.

Yup, that was going to be my suggestion. We currently
have x86, ARM and a bunch of other options for
hardware, running Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS,
Android... controversially I'm going to say the user
experience isn't hugely different across the board, for
casual users at least.

Very controversial statement there, Bob, I'm not sure whether to agree with you or meet you in the parking lot for a fist fight. ;)

I think the things that made the Amiga so incredible at
its time were the special purpose chips for sound,
blitting, graphics, etc - they really enabled new and
wonderful things. Nowadays we almost have too much
grunt to know what to do with it, everything runs in
"true colour" modes, high quality sound is standard...
I'm not sure where you could differentiate for
capabilities.

I wonder about an alternate universe where computers were made BETTER instead of just FASTER and with more data capacity.

What do I mean by 'making computers better'? Well, do we have fewer computer issues today than in the 1980s, or more? When I was growing up, computers were "the next big thing" and everyone accepted that of course some kinks have to be worked out along the way, as we become computerised. But I think that instead of the kinks being worked out, we just decided that computers not really working that well is a normal and satisfactory baseline.

We live in a world of compromise, and the result isn't always ideal. Instead of stacks of books documenting computer hardware/software, things are made so intuitive that documentation "isn't needed". Now we're relying on posts online from unknown sources to educate us in how to use our new devices. I didn't know how to move the cursor for text entry on my iPhone for a really long time, until I happened to see a friend do it - I still run into people who have no idea you can move the cursor and don't have to backspace everything to fix a typo in the middle. How the hell are we supposed to know how to use things when there's no documentation?

Why is it so hard to get ECC memory in consumer devices? The technology has been around for decades and provides a significant reliability increase for a small price increase. It solves a known problem - bits get flipped, and this breaks computers - ECC memory can fix many of those bitflips and notify an error has occured in cases where there are too many bits flipped. But on new devices, we get the ability to superimpose funny mustaches on our pets faces in realtime video instead of hardware that works more reliabily.

DRAM memory is so unstable these days it's a miracle it works at all. "Rowhammer" is a security exploit that has affected DRAM memory for the past decade (or more) - the tiny capacitors that hold each bit of information can sometimes have their value changed by READING other nearby bits. An attacker can read from a memory location repeatedly and the effect is that bits in other locations are flipped - this includes being able to flip bits in the kernel, ring 0, escaping browser sandboxes, etc. There are multiple layers of mitigations that run on modern computers just so that the rowhammer effect doesn't happen accidentally - and as chip sizes shrink, the rowhammer effect continues to get worse and worse. The DRAM chips have mitigations, the memory controller has mitigations, the operating system has mitigations, the problem still isn't solved (and I think physics suggests it'll only get worse).

Don't even get me started on software development practices... They make modern hardware look absolutely brilliant.

So I do really wonder "what could be" if the focus was on making computers work better, instead of the focus always being on "what can the sales department sell today". All this money and time and effort put into AI, yet I have to get off the couch and power cycle my Android TV box because it crashed again. Using anything with a computer in it is death by a thousand cuts, as we encounter all the corners cut by rich tech companies.


(I may have been feeling a bit rant-y...) :)


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: AKAcastor to Bob Worm on Tue Jun 11 2024 10:53:56

Hi, Chris.

I wonder about an alternate universe where computers were made BETTER instead of just FASTER and with more data capacity.

<snip snip>

it'll only get worse).

Well, I'm quite positive. I really enjoy playing on old computers because they're kind of janky - imagine how much fun going back to all this crap will be?

Oh, no, that's right. None of it will last to the point where we miss it :(

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: AKAcastor to Bob Worm on Tue Jun 11 2024 10:53 am

But I think that instead of the kinks being worked out, we just decided that computers not really working that well is a normal and satisfactory baseline.

In some ways though, I think some things have gotten better. Microsoft Windows became the dominant operating system for PCs (despite there being arguably better alternatives), and there was a time when Windows was known to crash a lot. I think Windows has become much more stable for the everyday user, especially since Windows 2000 and XP came around (which were based on NT rather than 9x). And Linux is a lot more mature, too. I have a secondary PC at home running Linux Mint, which runs my BBS and Plex media server, and generally it just chugs along without major isssues.

We live in a world of compromise, and the result isn't always ideal. Instead of stacks of books documenting computer hardware/software, things are made so intuitive that documentation "isn't needed". Now we're relying on posts online from unknown sources to educate us in how to use our new devices. I didn't know how to move the cursor for text entry on my iPhone for a really long time, until I happened to see a friend do it - I still run into people who have no idea you can move the cursor and don't have to backspace everything to fix a typo in the middle. How the hell

I always thought you could tap on the screen anywhere in an input field to move/place the cursor there (similar to clicking a mouse on a PC to place the cursor). Was there a time when that didn't work? Or am I thinking of a different scenario than you're describing?

Don't even get me started on software development practices... They make modern hardware look absolutely brilliant.

As a software developer, sometimes I wonder about some software development practices. And it seems most software developers prefer their own way of doing things, and in code reviews, they'll judge other peoples' code accordingly.

Nightfox

True, though I was thinking of specifics. Amiga was ahead of its time, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see where they'd be today if they came out on top. It might be interesting to see AmigaOS rather than

Hmmm a 68k world? A powerPC Amiga? Shrug, I still think over all it would've gravitated to where it is now. Uncle Bill mightn't have gotten himself on every corporate desktop, but the same design guys are all out there doing t heir thing. Sure mightn't be exact, but given its already a pointy clicky system its not a big stretch.


There's not the same market for PC parts there used to be, a lot of stuff has just standardised and is designed into your mobo. The only major considerations at present appear to be video and memory.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Spectre to Nightfox on Wed Jun 12 2024 04:26 pm

Hmmm a 68k world? A powerPC Amiga? Shrug, I still think over all it would've gravitated to where it is now. Uncle Bill mightn't have gotten

There's not the same market for PC parts there used to be, a lot of stuff has just standardised and is designed into your mobo. The only major considerations at present appear to be video and memory.

True. I still like to build my own desktop PC, since I can customize it to what I want, and in some ways, having a lot of stuff on the mobo makes it simpler. I just add the processor, memory, dedicated graphics card, and 3rd-party CPU cooler if the CPU doesn't come with one, and the case, etc.. I've wondered if building your own PC would even be a thing now if Amiga or another computer brand came out on top. It was mainly the open architecture of the IBM that allowed that to happen. Also, it sounds like it almost didn't happen initially - I heard IBM initially tried to sue when the first clone maker reverse-engineered their BIOS to make a clone. If another computer maker came out on top, we'd probably have to always buy a pre-made PC and customize it rather than building one with only a set of parts.

Nightfox

Hmm, I'm not too sure, but I regulary attend a few amiga groups around where I live.

... No honey, I can't eat with the family. My computer gets lonely!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Who Dares Wins Amiga BBS (21:1/124)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: klunk to Nightfox on Wed Jun 12 2024 07:42 pm

Hmm, I'm not too sure, but I regulary attend a few amiga groups around where I live.

It would be good to quote the part of the message you're replying to. I don't remember the context here.

Nightfox

I've wondered if building your own PC would even be a thing now if Amiga or another computer brand came out on top. It was mainly the open architecture of the IBM that allowed that to happen. Also, it sounds like it almost didn't happen initially - I heard IBM initially tried to sue when the first clone maker reverse-engineered their BIOS to make a clone.

IBM wasn't the first to have open architecture though. You got the Apple II, not that it was ever cut out for the long haul. And before Apple went completely spastic, you had NUBUS in the MacII/Quadra era. You could've
ended up with them instead.

The little I can find on any law suits relates to the PC... and it does
relate to BIOS. The whole system was put out as open architecture/design,
save for the contents of the BIOS. Looks like typical IBM protecting
software. There was no pursuit of any clean versions.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Spectre to Nightfox on Thu Jun 13 2024 06:32 pm

IBM wasn't the first to have open architecture though. You got the Apple II, not that it was ever cut out for the long haul. And before Apple went completely spastic, you had NUBUS in the MacII/Quadra era. You could've ended up with them instead.

Did it? I don't remember ever seeing any Apple II clones, or clones of the Quadra etc.. Apple didn't allow clones until after Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple; I remember seeing some Mac clones from Power Computing, Motorola, and maybe a couple otehrs. Some of them were more powerful than Apple's Macs at a lower price. But Steve Jobs killed that when he came back.

Nightfox

Did it? I don't remember ever seeing any Apple II clones, or clones of the Quadra etc.. Apple didn't allow clones until after Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple; I remember seeing some Mac clones from Power Computing, Motorola, and maybe a couple otehrs. Some of them were more powerful than Apple's Macs at a lower price. But Steve Jobs killed that when he came back.

At one time every man and his dog, and maybe his dog's unknown pet were
making Apple II Clones. Taiwan, China, South America some better than
others, some with extra features, like Z80 built into the Motherboard. We
even had 2 clones here in Australia, Dick Smith CAT which I believe is
another pre-existing clone relabled, and a Medfly.

I'm a bit rusty on just what Macs there were clones for. The era you're looking for is the Sculley CEO era, when you put a pepsi man in charge of a computer company. He probably tried to hard to be all things to all people. They had to many models, aimed at to many niches, and were making a loss.
Jobs to his credit looked at the inventory, and nixed everything that was not core unfortunately including the IIgs, limited the models and drove it back into profit.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

At one time every man and his dog, and maybe his dog's unknown pet were making Apple II Clones. Taiwan, China, South America some better than others, some with extra features, like Z80 built into the Motherboard.

and even in the USA the most well known ones are the Franklin Ace and
the VTech Laser 128, though Wikipedia lists a bunch of other ones i hadn't heard of, but nonetheless there were definitely clones even within Apple's
own markets

|08- |05maple "|13mavica|05" syrup |07(|10byte/byteself|07 or it/its)
|09https://maple.pet/

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

Browsing the messages on an Osborne 1a through a WiFi modem. Osborne is runningCP/M 2.2 and terminal program is either Kermit-80 or MDM7.22 COM file (Don't
know the author of that software).

Osborne has single sided drives - only 91k space per diskette. Serial cable oonly has RX TX and GND wires, 2400 baud. I restored the machine several years ago. Found double-sided disk images of single-sided disks online so I had to open the DS image and save it as a SS image, buy a GoTek floppy drive emulator, make the custom cable and use the emulator as drive A to write the image to an actual diskette in the restored aligned drive B. What a journey! Big thanks to everyone who posted guides online for setting up the GoTek emulator. Learning to code TurboPascal 3.0.
Z_C

* Origin: Kludge BBS | klud.ge (21:3/177)

Osborne has single sided drives - only 91k space per
diskette. Serial cable
oonly has RX TX and GND wires, 2400 baud.

Oh wow that's "roughing it" level of retro computing! :) Very cool.

And that really does sound like quite a journey to get the images onto disks - nice work completing that marathon.

Learning to code TurboPascal 3.0.

That sounds like fun, I haven't written anything in Turbo Pascal but I have disassembled it a bit. :) I used Delphi (a later descendent of Turbo Pascal) a little bit but mostly C++ Builder.

Any specific projects you have planned with Turbo Pascal?


Hack the Planet!

Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

[snip] What a journey!

i'll say, that's very impressive!

|08- |05maple "|13mavica|05" syrup |07(|10byte/byteself|07 or it/its)
|09https://maple.pet/

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Zero_Cool to maple on Thu Jun 13 2024 22:42:31

Hi, ZC.

Osborne has single sided drives - only 91k space per diskette. Serial cable oonly has RX TX and GND wires, 2400 baud. I restored the machine several years ago. Found double-sided disk images of single-sided disks online so I had to open the DS image and save it as a SS image, buy a GoTek floppy drive emulator, make the custom cable and use the emulator as drive A to write the image to an actual diskette in the restored aligned drive B. What a journey! Big thanks to everyone who posted guides online for setting up the GoTek emulator. Learning to code TurboPascal 3.0.

I'm sure it tastes all the sweeter for that effort. I really like your style.

To quote the Welsh cult classic TV series Gavin and Stacey - "Odd choice, but it's your choice!" Nobody else is doing BBS on an Acorn but I flipping love mine :)

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Osborne has single sided drives - only 91k space per diskette. Serial cable oonly has RX TX and GND wires, 2400 baud. I restored the

Hah! Makes the Apple Disk][ drives look generous at 114k for the original 13 sector format, let alone the whole 140k for the 16sector version.

Is 2400 all you can drive the port at? Does it have any ACIA/UART or is it
bit banging like a commode or I suspect original model IIc. Its a bit
uncommon, but you might be able to manage 4800 out of it, or at a pinch 9600. 9600 will require some CPU grunt instead of better serial ports usually.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Serial cable only has RX TX and GND wires, 2400 baud.

I did a little research too. And... I stand corrected, it uses a 6850 to
drive the port, but the 6850 has different modes of operation and the
Osborne port is locked to 2400 Max.

Ordinarily at 6850 ought to be able to manage 19.2k under pressure,
definitely 9600 and support the extra control lines. It'd take some hardware hacking to get faster speeds unlocked, probably not worth it, and then you'd have also modified the box too.

In theory you could take RTS/CTS straight from the 6850. I've got some old cards that use this thing. Off hand I can't tell you which pins, but its
really on tie them high to change the clock signal divisor.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Hi Akacastor,

On Tuesday June 11 2024, Akacastor said to Bob Worm:

Why is it so hard to get ECC memory in consumer devices? The technology has been around for decades and provides a significant reliability
increase for a small price increase.

That's it right there.. A small increase in price.. The consumer is very adverse to a say $40-60 price rise.

Enterprice grade stuff is made to be reliable, as that's what's needed to
get the most stable and reliable system.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)

Hi Nightfox,

On Tuesday June 11 2024, Nightfox said to AKAcastor:

I always thought you could tap on the screen anywhere in an input field
to move/place the cursor there (similar to clicking a mouse on a PC to place the cursor). Was there a time when that didn't work? Or am I thinking of a different scenario than you're describing?

That was only a recent thing. The screen and os need to both support that function for it to work. A touch screen is great for people that have a
adverse condition to a mouse, or health issues... Not so much fun when a big decides to walk or fly into the screen though...


\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: Vorlon to Nightfox on Sat Jun 15 2024 11:17 am

I always thought you could tap on the screen anywhere in an input field to
move/place the cursor there (similar to clicking a mouse on a PC to place
the cursor). Was there a time when that didn't work? Or am I thinking of
a different scenario than you're describing?

That was only a recent thing. The screen and os need to both support that function for it to work. A touch screen is great for people that have a adverse condition to a mouse, or health issues... Not so much fun when a big decides to walk or fly into the screen though...

The touch screen interface is probably what most people use on a device like an iPhone or other smartphone though. One time I plugged a USB mouse into an Android smartphone and a mouse pointer actually came up on the screen, but for a mobile device, I would imagine a mouse would more often be used with a tablet than a smartphone.

Also I've never had any bugs fly onto my smartphone screen..

Nightfox

That was only a recent thing. The screen and os need to both support

that

function for it to work. A touch screen is great for people that have a adverse condition to a mouse, or health issues... Not so much fun when
a big decides to walk or fly into the screen though...

The touch screen interface is probably what most people use on a device like an iPhone or other smartphone though. One time I plugged a USB
mouse into an Android smartphone and a mouse pointer actually

Used to have a couple of touch screen CRTs kicking around paint store. You could select a photo that looked something like your house, and then select colours and apply them to whatever you touched. Always thought it'd make a spiffy addition to try and play DOOM with. Yes it was that long ago. Not sure how it was doing surface detection, but it was a serial device at the back
end. It was never sensitive enough to be worried by the incumbent insect population.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

On 14 Jun 2024, maple said the following...

- maple "mavica" syrup (byte/byteself or it/its)

this is why nobody takes this stuff serious. heh

was/were

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

I decided to make a game to test out the TurboPascal language. It's a simmple game for 2 players where the player on the left must reach the right side of thestage to score and vice-versa for the other player. Both players can jump, pushthe other and toss the other player. First one to 3 points wins. All graphics
are ASCII characters.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to store more keypresses than 3. The Osborne ROM has space for 3, due to the heavy use of control or escape codes, but I fear it won't work anyways due to how the physical keyboard matrix is wired. Did some testing and 4 or more keypresses return another letter. I'm in no rush to complete it. The next time I pick it up will be in a couple months from now. Dissasembling sounds like a nightmare.

TThanks for the reply,
Z_C

* Origin: Kludge BBS | klud.ge (21:3/177)

Yes, the 2400 baud is set using a jumper on the motherboard. Native iss 300 with a software switch to 1200 using the CP/M sysgen? .com program. Sounds likea fun project but for my first mod, I'd like to try to replace the ROM and BIOS
chips with ones that add block graphics characters (perhaps PETSCII) or some other graphics set.

And yes, 91K is tough. A lot of the disk images for the Osborne are for larger programs on the 180k double sided single density disks. At least ZORK 1 can be split on 2 disks :) one for the 84k DAT file containing all the text and the 14k?COM file that runs the game.

I did find a copy of Epyx Rogue that I played on the Osborne. "The original Roguelike!". Haven't beat the game yet. The enemies on the lower levels have a very strange damage roll that does no damage or max ddamage on every hit!

Z_C

* Origin: Kludge BBS | klud.ge (21:3/177)

this is why nobody takes this stuff serious. heh

it's ok, i don't need to take anyone else seriously either love <3

|08- |05maple "|13mavica|05" syrup |07(|10byte/byteself|07 or it/its)
|09https://maple.pet/

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

I decided to make a game to test out the TurboPascal
language. It's a simmple
game for 2 players where the player on the left must
reach the right side of thestage to score and vice-versa
for the other player. Both players can jump, pushthe
other and toss the other player. First one to 3 points
wins. All graphics are ASCII characters.

That sounds like a good idea for a game to test out the language. Since you're using ASCII characters, I wonder if the game would work as a door game? (or is that part of the plan already?)

I'm currently trying to figure out how to store more
keypresses than 3.

Oh yeah that could be a tough limit to deal with, like you say due to the keyboard matrix there can be some hard limitations on multiple keypresses. An easy-to-forget limitation until you run into it.

in no rush to complete it. The next time I pick it up will be in a couple months from now. Dissasembling sounds like a nightmare.

Your relaxed pace sounds good for a hobby project, ready to be picked up when the time is right and the mood strikes.

Disassembling software definitely can turn into a nightmare, but sometimes it's fun and easier than expected to poke around inside someone's code. (also sometimes terrible and so much more difficult than anticipated! haha)


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: AKAcastor to Zero_Cool on Sun Jun 16 2024 22:36:28

Hi, Chris.

That sounds like a good idea for a game to test out the language. Since you're using ASCII characters, I wonder if the game would work as a door game? (or is that part of the plan already?)

You've dismantled a fair few door games, are there any guides around to explain how to put a door game together? I assume the username, screen size and board name are handed in as environment variables or something?

Cheers,

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

You've dismantled a fair few door games, are there any
guides around to explain how to put a door game
together? I assume the username, screen size and board
name are handed in as environment variables or
something?

Good question - I haven't actually written any door games, I do more breaking than making. :) I don't know any guides, but I imagine it's very likely some existed at some point. I know there were some libraries that were commonly used - though I am blanking on any names right now. Most games used a door game library that took care of carrier detection and displaying data on the sysop's screen as well as sending to the caller, etc. Turbo Pascal seems like the most popular development system, followed by BASIC and C, as far as I can tell.

Typically a 'drop file' is used to pass information about the user and system to the game. Common drop files are DOOR.SYS and DORINFO1.DEF. They're just text files with various information on each line.

Doors that are designed to be accessed via telnet sometimes use the RLOGIN protocol to have the username and password provided to the door.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: AKAcastor to Bob Worm on Mon Jun 17 2024 00:40:48

Hi, Chris.

Turbo Pascal seems like the most popular development system, followed by BASIC and C, as far as I can tell.

I was pretty fond of Pascal... 30 years ago :)

Typically a 'drop file' is used to pass information about the user and system to the game. Common drop files are DOOR.SYS and DORINFO1.DEF. They're just text files with various information on each line.

Hmm - maybe I should start by downloading some of the door games in the synchronet repositories.

But I need to finish Worminal first :)

Cheers,

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

etc. Turbo Pascal seems like the most popular development system, followed by BASIC and C, as far as I can tell.

Pascal, particularly TurboPascal was a more mature language back then. It had faster code when compiled. It also lends itself to string handling, a lot
more like basic. You've got access to things like LEFT$ and RIGHT$.

If you tried to do direct serial port work with PASCAL it was a little difficult though, you'd end up having to resort to inline ASM unless you
worked with one of the DOOR suites that did all that and just exposed it as functions. I had some super basic serial work going on to leave a floating serial line to one of my Apple IIs, it just sat looking for 2 or 3 <CR> and then fired up the BBS. It was a bit like reinventing the wheel, but I didn't have much joy with any of the suites.

My only other significant accomplishment in pascal back then was the DM's Familiar. Don't think I got it fully complete, it'd do combat and saves, had the extended combat tables out too level 25.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Turbo Pascal seems like the most popular development
system, followed by
BASIC and C, as far as I can tell.

I was pretty fond of Pascal... 30 years ago :)

It certainly did have its good points.

But I need to finish Worminal first :)

Fantastic name! Absolutely brilliant.

Type without rhythm, and it won't attract The Worm... (Fatboy Slim, Weapon Of Choice) Check out my new terminal, terminal of choice.

https://youtu.be/wCDIYvFmgW8


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: AKAcastor to Bob Worm on Mon Jun 17 2024 11:01:00

Hi, Chris.

Type without rhythm, and it won't attract The Worm... (Fatboy Slim, Weapon Of Choice) Check out my new terminal, terminal of choice.

https://youtu.be/wCDIYvFmgW8

I, err... OK?

The stereo in that video is *excessively* wide :)

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

I had some super basic serial work going on to leave a floating
serial line to one of my Apple IIs, it just sat looking for 2 or 3 <CR> and then fired up the BBS. It was a bit like reinventing the
wheel, but I didn't have much joy with any of the suites.

That sounds like fun, I remember some systems requiring pressing enter a couple times to get them to answer, but I never set up a system like that myself. I was living that cushy DOS lifestyle on the PC, with FOSSIL drivers and all the convenience. ;)

My only other significant accomplishment in pascal back then was the DM's Familiar. Don't think I got it fully complete, it'd do
combat and saves, had the extended combat tables out too level 25.

I've never been a D&D player but that sounds like a handy tool when playing.


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Type without rhythm, and it won't attract The
Worm... (Fatboy Slim, Weapon
Of Choice) Check out my new terminal, terminal of choice.

https://youtu.be/wCDIYvFmgW8

I, err... OK?

Something about the Worminal put that in my head, I had to let it spread. :)

The stereo in that video is *excessively* wide :)

Fatboy Slim is perfectly excessive!

A bit off topic for this echo, but for anyone interested in this kind of music, Fatboy Slim released a new video last week for the song "Role Model".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlAEQKRZNKE

I think the video is the only AI "art" that I have enjoyed - it all has such a cursed look to it! (a great song too)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

That sounds like fun, I remember some systems requiring pressing enter a couple times to get them to answer, but I never set up a system like that myself. I was living that cushy DOS lifestyle on the PC, with FOSSIL drivers and all the convenience. ;)

Most of the press enter or esc twice to continue were to bypass mailers.
The serial work in question was in DOS.. and simply used interrupt 13 vectors for the handling thereof I don't remember a lot more about it now. But it
was the NULL line which just floated permanently in a state of DCD to the
Apple IIgs that had the mini front end hit enter twice to wake it up.

I just had enough code to read/write single characters to the port, and an extra funtion to feed it strings.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

You've dismantled a fair few door games, are there any
guides around to explain how to put a door game together?

I checked the door games I have installed here, I found a couple written in QuickBASIC that use QBSERIAL 3.20 from 1993 by Jeff Sumberg, and one written in C that uses OpenDoors 5.10.beta-3 from 1994 by Brian Pirie, and one written in Turbo Pascal that uses JPDoor Version 3.00 SE.

A web search for JPDoor led me to this great "Door Developer Kits" collection: http://archives.thebbs.org/ra102c.htm

I don't know which are good or which were popular, but there's a pretty good selection.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: door game developer kits
By: AKAcastor to Bob Worm on Tue Jun 18 2024 21:32:48

A web search for JPDoor led me to this great "Door Developer Kits" collection: http://archives.thebbs.org/ra102c.htm

Thanks, Chris. Will give it a look!

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

what i am diling up with??
a fucking 10MHz 286 AST Premium/286 model 80 machine! i recently got at VCF SW!~ for 150$ :D i also have a 20 MHz 286 comming in today and i am excited
for it :D i am so excited!!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... 640K ought to be enough for anybody. -Bill Gates, 1981.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

i forgot to mention i use mtcp telnet! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Re: Re: what are you dialing in with?
By: mary4 to maple on Fri Jun 21 2024 05:04 am

what i am diling up with??
a fucking 10MHz 286 AST Premium/286 model 80 machine! i recently got at

Fucking? :P

Nightfox

u got a 286 system u love too? :D?
i LOVE my 286 systems! <3

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... This virus requires Microsoft Windows 3.x

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Long live the Amiga :)
Currently own an Amiga 1200 & 600

i finally saw the nice amigas! i appreciate them as they are mega cool machines! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... It said "insert disk #3", but only two will fit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I think the things that made the Amiga so incredible at its time were the special purpose chips for sound, blitting, graphics, etc - they really enabled new and wonderful things. Nowadays we almost have too much grunt to know what to do with it, everything runs in "true colour" modes, high quality sound is standard... I'm not sure where you could differentiate for capabilities.

But then, I guess that's the point - not many people could have imagined the Amiga's capabilities when it came out.

I would say if we "squeezed the juice" out of modern hardware like we
did back in those days it could be something spectacular. Though it
would probably not be a "wow, look at those graphics" spectacle, more a "look how quick my 400 browser tabs open" spectacle :)

DUDE THE AMIGA IS FUCKING AMAZING! THOSE GRAPHICS! D A T SOUND! THAT MULTIMEDIA SYSTEM!

im just on a regular ass 286 xD

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... It said "insert disk #3", but only two will fit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Fucking? :P

lol! XD

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Redundant book title: DOS For Dummies

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

a fucking 10MHz 286 AST Premium/286 model 80 machine! i recently got at VCF SW!~ for 150$ :D i also have a 20 MHz 286 comming in today and i am excited for it :D i am so excited!!

hell yeah!! i love it when people give new life to these old machines

|08- |05maple "|13mavica|05" syrup |07(|10byte/byteself|07 or it/its)
|09https://maple.pet/

... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Retro32 BBS (21:1/215)

what i am diling up with?? a fucking 10MHz 286 AST Premium/286

Fucking? :P

Early low res porn model.


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Hi Nightfox,

On Saturday June 15 2024, Nightfox said to Vorlon:

that function for it to work. A touch screen is great for people that
have a adverse condition to a mouse, or health issues... Not so much
fun when a bug decides to walk or fly into the screen though...

The touch screen interface is probably what most people use on a device like an iPhone or other smartphone though. One time I plugged a USB

[..]

Also I've never had any bugs fly onto my smartphone screen..

I've not had that issue with a phone, but I have a 23" HP ALL in one...
How did I find out it has a touch screen? A bug flew into it and the system went nuts with it touching the screen. (The system was fron a client, so I didn't know it had touch support).


\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/196.0)

Nightfox wrote to mary4 <=-

what i am diling up with??
a fucking 10MHz 286 AST Premium/286 model 80 machine! i recently got at

Fucking? :P

They were a Dutch manufacturer of PCs in the late '80s.



... Always the first steps
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

hell yeah!! i love it when people give new life to these old machines

fuck yeah! <3 i installed FreeDOS on it! took 4 hours to install it xD
it is a great lil OS!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... A .GIF is worth a thousand .TXT.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Early low res porn model.

lol!!! xD its a model 80

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

They were a Dutch manufacturer of PCs in the late '80s.

whaa!? xD

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... No honey, I can't eat with the family. My computer gets lonely!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)