On 12-31-21 07:37, GeekWisdom wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah I'm an old geek. My first experinece of web browsing was running Lynx on a remote Unix server (BSDi, I think) in glorious text, and any downloads, I had to first download to the ISP's server, then use "sz"
to transfer it to my PC. )

Before lynx there was gopher!. Then when WWW game in everyone starting changing their gopherspace to say
'see our WWW site at...'

I loved gopher back in the day! Worked really well.


... Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
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Blue White wrote to GeekWisdom <=-

What other things can you think of?

I am a COBOL developer, if that answers your question. :)

COBOL eh? I took a course in university on it, but not much more. I have done a lot of dbase/clipper in
my time, some of the folks I work with still maintain an old COBOL sytem, though I'm not sure if they
really no how to 'code in it'



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Re: Re: Old Geek Thoughts...
By: Vk3jed to GeekWisdom on Fri Dec 31 2021 09:26 pm

On 12-31-21 07:37, GeekWisdom wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah I'm an old geek. My first experinece of web browsing was running Lynx on
remote Unix server (BSDi, I think) in glorious text, and any downloads, I had
first download to the ISP's server, then use "sz"
to transfer it to my PC. )

Before lynx there was gopher!. Then when WWW game in everyone starting changin
their gopherspace to say
'see our WWW site at...'

I loved gopher back in the day! Worked really well.

... Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52

It still does.

Nowadays they are trying to replace it with Gemini. Maybe there is some merit to that.
I have never tried it myself.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I loved gopher back in the day! Worked really well.

It still does.

Nowadays they are trying to replace it with Gemini. Maybe there is some merit to that.
I have never tried it myself.

I've heard ppl talking about Gemini a little bit - I wanna check it out.

Anyone have a favorite [Linux] Gemini client?



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

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* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 12-31-21 14:52, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

(Gopher)

It still does.

Nowadays they are trying to replace it with Gemini. Maybe there is some merit to that.
I have never tried it myself.

I know nothing about Gemini, but am aware some people are still playing with Gopher servers. I've never set one up myself. maybe I should as an exercise some day. :)


... Don't argue with he who buys ink by the gallon.
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McDoob wrote to GeekWisdom <=-

You've heard of the 'grease monkey' from the auto world, yes? Well...

I've tried to understand at least a little bit of everything software, but... honestly, my main focus has always been hardware. I am,
basically, a computer mechanic. A 'grease monkey' for computers...a
'code monkey'? (Not to be confused with 'script kiddie'...)

Cool - I'm not so much into hardware, mostly software been writing code since
I was 8 and got my first VIC20. You can even try out some of my old programs on archive.org (https://archive.org/details/brad-vic-20)

... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
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McDoob wrote to seeLive <=-

I have a really hard time with social media and how it is being
abused to take advantage of consumers and their data. I think we are seeing the beginnings of the technological revolution starting to deteriorate in some ways... I don't think it will ever really end, just morph into various new directions... but, this abuse really has to stop.

I agree, mostly.

Big players, like 'Alphabet' and 'Meta' are definitely making a fortune from 'targeted advertizing'. But this isn't the 'technological
revolution' any more. That ended more than twenty years ago...This is
the 'information age'. Silicon is cheap. Data is priceless...

In some ways, the 'information age' has done more than the 'technology age':

I like your distinction of ages!

The problem is not the technology, and the fact that anyone can 'produce' at low cost
these days is amazing. Though much of it is not particularily 'high' quality material.

The idea of this whole 'information age' is to share thoughts, and ideas across the
globe. To bring people closer together in the spirit of mutual cooporation. To learn
more about others and expand our own horizons

But today it is a "look at me" system. It is geared towards everyone trying to become
'famous' or 'viral'. There are simply too many 'producers' of silly content and too
many consumers without much (any?) critical thinking skills.. INMO

... Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored - Aldous Huxley
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Re: Re: Old Geek Thoughts...
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Sat Jan 01 2022 07:24 pm

On 12-31-21 14:52, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

(Gopher)

It still does.

Nowadays they are trying to replace it with Gemini. Maybe there is some merit to that.
I have never tried it myself.

I know nothing about Gemini, but am aware some people are still playing with Gopher servers. I've nev
set one up myself. maybe I should as an exercise some day. :)

... Don't argue with he who buys ink by the gallon.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52

I happen to run my own gopher servers. I like it because the protocol is very easy to hack into doing
what you want it to do.

The idea behind Gemini is that is is a protocol which is designed to be hard to extend to pack ugly
things such as cookies and tracking. I am not a ware of the current state of the implementations. MOst of
what I have heard about are the existence of usable proof of concepts. (Sorry, paulie420)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Re: Re: Old Geek Thoughts...
By: GeekWisdom to McDoob on Sun Jan 02 2022 09:06 am

I like your distinction of ages!

The problem is not the technology, and the fact that anyone can 'produce' at low cost
these days is amazing. Though much of it is not particularily 'high' quality material.

The idea of this whole 'information age' is to share thoughts, and ideas across the
globe. To bring people closer together in the spirit of mutual cooporation. To learn
more about others and expand our own horizons

But today it is a "look at me" system. It is geared towards everyone trying to become
'famous' or 'viral'. There are simply too many 'producers' of silly content and too
many consumers without much (any?) critical thinking skills.. INMO

IMO the issue is that there is more people producing entertainment than there is demenad for it. That
causes the worth of entertainment to go down, so it is hard to make it profitable. Therefore, producers
compensate by cutting costs (making crap) and then they produce a whole lot of it so they can compete
with sheer ammount of product.

I have some experience in the book and magazine industry and I can ellaborate if you want.

The bottom line is there is no incentive to produce a single high quality thing when you can produce a
ton of crap.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I like your distinction of ages!

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to define things this way. The birth of the world-wide web is considered by many to be the start of the 'information age'.

The idea of this whole 'information age' is to share thoughts, and ideas across the
globe. To bring people closer together in the spirit of mutual cooporation. To learn
more about others and expand our own horizons

That WAS the idea. And it worked very well, for a while. Personally, I
believe it started to fail when advertizing online became a thing; when money and greed started taking over.

But today it is a "look at me" system. It is geared towards everyone trying to become
'famous' or 'viral'. There are simply too many 'producers' of silly content and too
many consumers without much (any?) critical thinking skills.. INMO

And here we are now. A big part of that system is geared toward becoming 'viral', indeed. Because viral videos with embedded ads are the whole point of the system. You hit the nail right on the head with the word 'consumer'. We
are no longer internet 'surfers'. Definitely not pioneers, anymore. Just another pair of eyeballs and ears for adverts.

The day I got my first 'high speed' connection (ie >56k), I basically stopped watching TV. One show title still stands out to me, and says it all: "This
Hour Has 22 Minutes". Granted, it was actually a half-hour show, but it
really was less than 22 minutes of actual show. Hour-long shows are down to
41 minutes these days. That's one-third adverts!

It's just as bad online, now. Worse, in some ways. It's practically impossible to access some sites unless you have an ad-blocker installed. Hell, some OSes come with ad-blockers pre-installed. When adverts become such a nuisance that you have to have special software (or hardware, in my case) just to tame them, there's a problem.

Another thing I'm using the Pi that PiBBS runs on is PiHole. It effectively removes any reference to (known) advert servers before the data gets to whichever device I'm actually using. It's not perfect, but very effective, as long as you keep it updated.

Forget the War on Drugs, or the War on Terror! I'm stuck fighting the War on Adverts! (v_v)

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

Cool - I'm not so much into hardware, mostly software been writing code since I was 8 and got my first VIC20. You can even try out some of my
old programs on archive.org (https://archive.org/details/brad-vic-20)

Nice, GW - I downloaded the whole 30MB ZIP, thanks for sharing. :P I'll upload it to my archive and am having a bit of fun running some of yer old code. :P

2o22, and people are still looking at it.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 01-01-22 14:07, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I happen to run my own gopher servers. I like it because the protocol
is very easy to hack into doing
what you want it to do.

Yeah I knew there were people here playing with Gopher, but couldn't remember who. :)

The idea behind Gemini is that is is a protocol which is designed to be hard to extend to pack ugly
things such as cookies and tracking. I am not a ware of the current
state of the implementations. MOst of
what I have heard about are the existence of usable proof of concepts. (Sorry, paulie420)

Interesting as well. Will be worth seeing where Gemini goes.


... A noisy exhaust to some almost amounts to a mating call.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Hello McDoob!

** On Thursday 30.12.21 - 19:59, McDoob wrote to GeekWisdom:

What other things can you think of?

Um...
The day I switched from a Walkman to a 'personal CD player' (Sony took a while to catch up)...

Wait! No! The day I bought my first 'anti-skip' CD player! Which may or
may not have been a Discman...(v_v)

Music has always been a passion. Hence why I was willing to wait hours, just to listen to a few minutes...

I still have my first (and only, 'cuz I really don't need a
replacement) Sony CD (Mega Bass) Discman D-33. It has
outlasted two fullsize CD hifi players. I still use it almost
daily at my bedside attached to a modest speaker bar - good
enough for close listening while trying to get to sleep.

The D-33 was an expensive bugger at over $250USD at the time.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Hello McDoob!

** On Saturday 01.01.22 - 18:21, McDoob wrote to GeekWisdom:

Another thing I'm using the Pi that PiBBS runs on is
PiHole. It effectively removes any reference to (known)
advert servers before the data gets to whichever device I'm
actually using. It's not perfect, but very effective, as
long as you keep it updated.

But your account is still pulling in the same data from your
ISP, right? PiHole may prevent the data reaching your end
devices, but PiHole needs the data to process it. From a data
usage perspective, it's still a losing battle.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

I still have my first (and only, 'cuz I really don't need a
replacement) Sony CD (Mega Bass) Discman D-33. It has
outlasted two fullsize CD hifi players. I still use it almost
daily at my bedside attached to a modest speaker bar - good
enough for close listening while trying to get to sleep.

Unfortunately, my old Discman is long gone. I can be very hard on my stuff.
My dad used to call me a 'walking warranty claim'. ;)

Though I do have a similar bedside arrangement. My Pi4 carries my entire mp3 collection (close to 100 GB!), and is connected to both my bedroom TV, and my portable BT speakers. I have this little remote control/keyboard/air mouse
that I use to control Kodi (and PiOS).

Ever since I got my digital copies, I almost never use the actual CDs anymore. You can't scratch a mp3!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

But your account is still pulling in the same data from your
ISP, right? PiHole may prevent the data reaching your end
devices, but PiHole needs the data to process it. From a data
usage perspective, it's still a losing battle.

I understand what you mean, but you are mistaken. The 'pull request' is what PiHole removes. Therefore, the ad is never downloaded. Very similar to how ad-blockers work, but on a network scale, instead of per-browser.

Again, it's not perfect. Some websites become broken when the code is
removed. Lots of ad-heavy sites also have anti-ad-blocker code, now. And, ad servers change over time; new ones go up, old ones go down, proxy is a thing, etc.

It's still better than having ads everywhere. Better than having an ad interrupt a YT video every 5 minutes, and paying my ISP to watch 'em.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

Re: Old Geek Thoughts...
By: Ogg to McDoob on Sun Jan 02 2022 01:33 pm

Hello McDoob!

** On Saturday 01.01.22 - 18:21, McDoob wrote to GeekWisdom:

Another thing I'm using the Pi that PiBBS runs on is
PiHole. It effectively removes any reference to (known)
advert servers before the data gets to whichever device I'm
actually using. It's not perfect, but very effective, as
long as you keep it updated.

But your account is still pulling in the same data from your
ISP, right? PiHole may prevent the data reaching your end
devices, but PiHole needs the data to process it. From a data
usage perspective, it's still a losing battle.

The PiHole prevents the Personal Computers which use it from downloading the data in the first place. What the PiHole does is to tell the computer "this advertisement you are trying to download does not exist" so the computer doesn't even try.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

seeLive wrote to GeekWisdom <=-

I used to manage a small team of COBOL GEN programmers... although, I don't think they could code in it either... GEN is a CA product that is for menu-driven development... companies have been trying to bring programming to the masses forever.... maybe someday it will work.

Funny coincidences!

The group I know with used MicroFocus COBOL, but the actual team I was on as
release coordinator the programmers used CA GEN not for COBOL (formally COOLGEN).

It's a pretty neat under appreciated language. Programmers can't really make syntax
errors in it because you don't really 'type' in it as much as select the statements, variables
etc from a list. What's cooler is you can choose your output language, and then have that language
compile it. On the team I was part of, they output to "C", later to java, and just as I was leaving
they had converted an old-style terminal like program to a full web based interface.

Small World!

_____________________________________________________________________

(,``,"> rusty sez... Re-livin' the dream...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: seeLive's rustyHedgehog - therhh.dynv6.net:2300 (21:2/128)

... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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The group I know with used MicroFocus COBOL

Now there's a blast from the past: I learned COBOL on this system way back in the late 80s.

COBOL's use of packed/unpacked BCD was a godsend with regards to financial entropy, but a period in the wrong place changed the entire logic of the
code and often sent the compiler into an error rage.

At one point we used to keep a tally of who managed to generate the most
errors in a single compilation - not sure if I won, but I'm sure I was in the top three. It wasn't unusual for the compiler to throw out all of the source after the erroneous period, so if you made an error early on it was almost a guaranteed win.

As I recall, one of my more creative colleagues managed to write a fully functional COBOL program whose source read like a cheap pornographic novel: "Open Legs" ... "Insert Penis" ... you get the idea.

Ah, great days, when days were long and nights even longer.


TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM ---------------------------------------------------------
Error is a great teacher; humility is the hardest lesson.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

On 04 Jan 2022, GeekWisdom said the following...

Funny coincidences!

The group I know with used MicroFocus COBOL, but the actual team I was
on as release coordinator the programmers used CA GEN not for COBOL (formally COOLGEN).

Small World!

It really is... I just started watching all the Back to the BBS docos and seeing everyone there that I've been chatting with makes it feel even smaller! They are amazing btw... very professional... and I love getting to see everyone as 'in person' as much as I may ever see them... when I was a kid doing the BBS thing, I physically met very few of the people I hung out with on-line... but, did meet a lot of people on-line...

And, I like how people are sharing their thoughts and it's not met with death threats... I mean, I can see people disagree with one another and some seem to be concerned with reprisals, but they are free to speak their mind... a much improved model from the current inter-schnitzel mess the rest of the world is being held hostage by... cheers, GeekWisdom

-seeLive

_____________________________________________________________________

(,``,"> rusty sez... Re-livin' the dream...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: seeLive's rustyHedgehog - therhh.dynv6.net:2300 (21:2/128)

McDoob wrote to GeekWisdom <=-

The day I got my first 'high speed' connection (ie >56k), I basically stopped watching TV. One show title still stands out to me, and says it all: "This Hour Has 22 Minutes". Granted, it was actually a half-hour show, but it really was less than 22 minutes of actual show. Hour-long shows are down to 41 minutes these days. That's one-third adverts!

Loved that show esp. Rick Mercer. I never lost my interest in TV. pretty
much a couch potato. I also really enjoyed 'Four on the Floor' with Mr. Canoehead :-)

Forget the War on Drugs, or the War on Terror! I'm stuck fighting the
War on Adverts! (v_v)

I'm 100% with you on ads. It's interesting that initially ads were pretty
low quality too, annoying banners and stuff. Now they are the exactly same
ads you see on TV, and sometimes even public service announcements, I'm assuming because most people don't even watch TV, so the big ad companies
had to start adversting on the 'net.

And don't get me started on the ads now in movie theatre's too! Once time
it was just the coming attractions, now I have to sit through 10 minutes
of car ads, just to watch the movie. I didn't shell out a fortune to
sit in a movie cinema to sit and watch ads! /rant

___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

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And don't get me started on the ads now in movie theatre's too! Once time it was just the coming attractions, now I have to sit through 10 minutes of car ads, just to watch the movie. I didn't shell out a fortune to
sit in a movie cinema to sit and watch ads! /rant

There's something I haven't done in a long time: go to a theatre. Gone are
the 'dollar matinees' of yore, that's for sure!

I think the last time I went was in 2018, and it was more expensive than a dinner date! Luckily, she was happy to try out my 'home theatre experience' on the next date! (o_-)

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

show, but it really was less than 22 minutes of actual show. Hour-long shows are down to 41 minutes these days. That's one-third adverts!

Back in the day, channels that employed advertising were essentially free; independent TV stations did not receive a stipend from the licence payer.
These days, people pay massive subscriptions in order to watch 10x the ads
we had 40 years ago.

It seems big media really can have their cake and eat it in the 21st century.

Blows my mind.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

Back in the day, channels that employed advertising were essentially
free; independent TV stations did not receive a stipend from the licence payer. These days, people pay massive subscriptions in order to watch
10x the ads we had 40 years ago.

It seems big media really can have their cake and eat it in the 21st century.

Blows my mind.

Um...I don't know where you grew up, but where I lived, there were only two free TV channels: CBC (national) and local. If you wanted to watch any
more than that, you had to pay a pretty massive subscription...just to watch
a bunch more ad-filled channels...

It's nothing new. Just the same story in a different book.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

Um...I don't know where you grew up, but where I lived, there were only two free TV channels: CBC (national) and local. If you wanted to watch
any more than that, you had to pay a pretty massive subscription...just
to watch a bunch more ad-filled channels...

Things were a little different in the UK, but then again, we only had a hand full of channels to choose from. Basically, you gave the BBC their pound of flesh and they broadcasted content without commercial breaks. Independents
like ITV were essentially free, but they broadcasted commercials every 15 minutes.

Things have become more 'Americanised' over the past 3 or 4 decades, and now
we too pay massive subscriptions for what is essentially home shopping.

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TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

Things were a little different in the UK, but then again, we only had a hand full of channels to choose from. Basically, you gave the BBC their pound of flesh and they broadcasted content without commercial breaks. Independents like ITV were essentially free, but they broadcasted commercials every 15 minutes.

That's definitely better than in Canada! Like I said, without paying for 'cable', we had exactly two channels. And both had commercials, like any
other cable channel. The only difference was the number of channels trying to show you ads...and the price...

It has been literal decades since I've watched TV directly. I still watch some TV shows...but not on any channel, and not with any ads (thanks to PiHole).

I've paid for Netflix, off and on. Their 'intelligent' suggestions are a nice feature (among many) worth paying for. But, for the most part, I won't pay either money or advert-eyeballs for my entertainment content. I can't afford the one, and I refuse to pay the other!

For now, the internet is still the information superhighway. With the right websites, one can access literally ANY information!

For now. Just as I'm fighting the War on Adverts, ad-companies are fighting
the War on the Internet...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

Hey TALIADON,

On 04 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

payer. These days, people pay massive subscriptions in order to watch
10x the ads we had 40 years ago.

It seems big media really can have their cake and eat it in the 21st century.

Blows my mind.

Yeah, they're really out of control. I remember when cable was commercial free in the very beginning... it seemed to really make them work to produce new and interesting content... now, with all the adverts it seem like a lot of the same old crap...

And, as you say, they charge us twice! We pay a 'corporate tax' to pay for all the commercials in the increased prices of goods and services and then subscription fees... what a racket.

-seeLive

_____________________________________________________________________

(,``,"> rusty sez... Re-livin' the dream...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: seeLive's rustyHedgehog - therhh.dynv6.net:2300 (21:2/128)

Absolutely. It's getting to the point where "The only winning move is not to play."

Judging by the desktop wallpaper in his YouTube tutorials, I'm pretty sure
that quote will strike a chord with Avon.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

On 04 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

Back in the day, channels that employed advertising were essentially
free; independent TV stations did not receive a stipend from the licence payer. These days, people pay massive subscriptions in order to watch
10x the ads we had 40 years ago.
It seems big media really can have their cake and eat it in the 21st century.

I'm afraid this is true. The "latest" model is streaming services, such as Netflix, Disney+, ABC All Access, etc., that charge a smallish monthly fee
for a subscription. That, in itself, is ok, I suppose; I mean, if no one
wants it, no one will buy it, right?

The smallish fees do add up if one has multiple subscriptions, but it's very
a la carte channel-wise and currently one would have to have quite a few subscriptions to match a monthly cable bill.

And, here's where I'm going with this: Most of these subscription streaming services are currently ad-free. We're back to "if you pay for it, you get it without ads." However, there's absolutely no guarantee that it will continue this way into the future. The subscription streaming services are still relatively new and are having to compete against cable TV and satellite services. Once they get a foothold, who knows? I'd like to imagine that it would continue as it is now, but everyone in this discussion already knows what's going to happen.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

Hey TALIADON,

On 05 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

Absolutely. It's getting to the point where "The only winning move is
not to play."

Joshua finally learned his lesson!!! Too bad many of us haven't... *<:-`)

Judging by the desktop wallpaper in his YouTube tutorials, I'm pretty
sure that quote will strike a chord with Avon.

No doubt, another child of the 80's...

_____________________________________________________________________

(,``,"> rusty sez... Re-livin' the dream...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: seeLive's rustyHedgehog - therhh.dynv6.net:2300 (21:2/128)

On 05 Jan 2022 at 11:30p, TALIADON pondered and said...

Absolutely. It's getting to the point where "The only winning move is
not to play."
Judging by the desktop wallpaper in his YouTube tutorials, I'm pretty
sure that quote will strike a chord with Avon.

It does! :)

I'm in the process of setting up a Rpi for some future YouTube videos... and guess what I added as the desktop today?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/11/06 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 05 Jan 2022 at 05:56p, Jeff pondered and said...

I'm afraid this is true. The "latest" model is streaming services, such
as Netflix, Disney+, ABC All Access, etc., that charge a smallish
monthly fee for a subscription. That, in itself, is ok, I suppose; I
mean, if no one wants it, no one will buy it, right?

agreed

The smallish fees do add up if one has multiple subscriptions, but it's very a la carte channel-wise and currently one would have to have quite
a few subscriptions to match a monthly cable bill.

Not sure how much cable costs, as here it's not really an option.
But I agree each service you pick adds up, often they sell themselves on the basis of the content / shows they offer, so it can be a PITA to get several streaming services just to watch the shows you want :(

And, here's where I'm going with this: Most of these subscription streaming services are currently ad-free. We're back to "if you pay for it, you get it without ads." However, there's absolutely no guarantee
that it will continue this way into the future. The subscription
streaming services are still relatively new and are having to compete against cable TV and satellite services. Once they get a foothold, who knows? I'd like to imagine that it would continue as it is now, but everyone in this discussion already knows what's going to happen.

YouTube offers a Red flavour without ads but I don't bother paying for that, but I also note YouTube is rather cautious with ad frequency and lengths of ads they run, it fascinates me to see when they allow you to 'skip' stuff and when they make you sit through it.

I'm not sure we can expect to see streamers ad in ad breaks as well... but I have seen this with a Satellite TV vendor I used here in NZ that over time went from no ads to ad breaks .... there was no drop in fees, but in the end folks (like me) voted with their wallets.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/11/06 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 05 Jan 2022 at 07:32p, seeLive pondered and said...

No doubt, another child of the 80's...

60's, 70's and 80's ..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/11/06 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 06 Jan 2022, Avon said the following...

The smallish fees do add up if one has multiple subscriptions, but it very a la carte channel-wise and currently one would have to have qui a few subscriptions to match a monthly cable bill.

Not sure how much cable costs, as here it's not really an option.
But I agree each service you pick adds up, often they sell themselves on the basis of the content / shows they offer, so it can be a PITA to get several streaming services just to watch the shows you want :(

I'm not really sure how much cable service costs here. I have cable, but
the bill is not my purview due to domestic agreement. When I was in charge of the cable bill, it was just "basic" cable+internet, but now we have
additional premium channels as well. I'm pretty sure the cable portion of the bill is over US$100.

So far I've used NetFlix, Acorn TV, CBS All Access, and Disney+. I think
we're about to get Discovery+ as well, at the reqest of my fiancee's mom.
None of these have ads.

I'm also able to stream anything that we get over cable; our cable company
has given us credentials to use investigationdiscovery.com, for example. We
pay for it in our cable package, so we get access to the streaming content as well. Notably, though, 1) the Disney Channel is not the same as Disney+ and
the various Discovery-related channels are not the same as Discovery+, and 2) streaming access acquired in this manner, except for the premium channels
like HBO, does include ads.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

Am 04.01.22 schrieb McDoob@21:4/135 in FSX_RETRO:

Hallo Mcdoob,

Um...I don't know where you grew up, but where I lived, there were
only two free TV channels: CBC (national) and local. If you wanted
to watch any more than that, you had to pay a pretty massive subscription...just to watch a bunch more ad-filled channels...

That highly depends on where you live on this planet.

Here in Germany, until 1984 (just a coincidence? *g*) we only had
public TV stations (2 nationwide: ARD and ZDF and several local
stations for one or more state). These also had (and have) ads, but
limited and not after 8pm.
(oh, and cable TV and satellite TV reception also started in the 80s)
1984, private TV stations were allowed which only have income from ads
(and product placement ...), but as per law they are only allowd to
transmit ~12 minutes of ads per hour. But they were, and most are
still, free to watch without subscription (at least in SD quality).

In 1990, the first PayTV station (Premiere, now Sky) went on air, but
with limited success. Another one started in the late 90s as a digital
TV station ("DF1"), it later merged with Premiere to become Sky.

Starting with HDTV, you often have to pay extra to receive the HD
versions of private TV stations; but if I'm correct, then there were
and are no other PayTV stations here worth mentioning.

Regards,
Anna

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)

I'm in the process of setting up a Rpi for some future YouTube videos... and guess what I added as the desktop today?

Amazing: Let's play the A47 game.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

Joshua finally learned his lesson!!! Too bad many of us haven't...

I remember watching this with my boy back in the day and thinking to myself
how unrealistic the AI was.

Fast forward to 2022: never underestimate your capacity to underestimate.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

The smallish fees do add up if one has multiple subscriptions, but it's very a la carte channel-wise and currently one would have to have quite
a few subscriptions to match a monthly cable bill.

TBH Jeff, I think there's a distinct paradigm shift in the way we perceive money these days. When I think back to my parent's time, there were only two things guaranteed to separate them from their hard-earned: necessity and
value. I'm not sure if they ever forgot wartime austerities, but that generation appeared to perceive 'wealth' as a security rather than a
commodity; looking back to mealtimes, I'm convinced my parents observed rationing until the day they died.

Today, it seems the mere existence of something is in itself reason enough
to invest, irrespective of its value. Somewhere along the line we began to value the three empty boxes over the one that is half full. Perhaps value is slowly giving way to ownership, or perhaps this old Brontosaurus is no longer tall enough to reach the trees (thankfully, the Mystic Speller knew how to spell 'Brontosaurus').

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

On 06 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

The smallish fees do add up if one has multiple subscriptions, but it very a la carte channel-wise and currently one would have to have qui a few subscriptions to match a monthly cable bill.

TBH Jeff, I think there's a distinct paradigm shift in the way we
perceive money these days. When I think back to my parent's time, there were only two things guaranteed to separate them from their hard-earned: necessity and value. I'm not sure if they ever forgot wartime
austerities, but that generation appeared to perceive 'wealth' as a security rather than a commodity; looking back to mealtimes, I'm
convinced my parents observed rationing until the day they died.

That, in turn, depends on how one perceives value, though. Does entertainment have value? Does fresh, healthy food have value over cheaper processed
staples? Those are questions whose answers vary from person to person and culture to culture.

Today, it seems the mere existence of something is in itself reason
enough to invest, irrespective of its value. Somewhere along the line we began to value the three empty boxes over the one that is half full.

I'm not sure about that. Tha may be a perception caused by differing values.
I enjoy learning about, building, and using sub-32-bit (and
especially sub-16-bit) computers, but I'm sure there are some that would consider this hobby an utter waste of money.

Perhaps value is slowly giving way to ownership, or perhaps this old Brontosaurus is no longer tall enough to reach the trees (thankfully,
the Mystic Speller knew how to spell 'Brontosaurus').

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here; is it perhaps something to
do with owning a library of physical albums versus having a Spotify subscription, for example?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

That, in turn, depends on how one perceives value, though. Does entertainment have value? Does fresh, healthy food have value over
cheaper processed staples? Those are questions whose answers vary from person to person and culture to culture.

I'm not sure about that. Tha may be a perception caused by differing values. I enjoy learning about, building, and using sub-32-bit (and especially sub-16-bit) computers, but I'm sure there are some that would consider this hobby an utter waste of money.

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here; is it perhaps something to do with owning a library of physical albums versus having a Spotify subscription, for example?

Absolutely, and I think I've seen a considerable shift in cultural values over the past four decades - some good, some not so perhaps.

Thinking of value in terms of a cost/benefit compromise, I think we're
prepared to cross the threshold of compromise far sooner than any previous generation. It's almost as if our ability to say no and go without has been eroded into nonexistence: we'd rather have it than not, whatever the compromise.

It seems for every inch conceded, the compromise accumulates the proverbial mile.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

On 06 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here; is it perhaps someth to do with owning a library of physical albums versus having a Spotif subscription, for example?

Absolutely, and I think I've seen a considerable shift in cultural
values over the past four decades - some good, some not so perhaps.

I would definitely agree, and point an accusatory finger at the '80s in particular.

Thinking of value in terms of a cost/benefit compromise, I think we're prepared to cross the threshold of compromise far sooner than any
previous generation. It's almost as if our ability to say no and go without has been eroded into nonexistence: we'd rather have it than not, whatever the compromise.

As for myself, I've pretty much abandoned having a video or music library,in favor of streaming services.

Which is not to say that I was not extremely skeptical of music & video streaming at first, as well as download-based video game ownership versus
more traditional cartridge- or media-based ownership.

However, I don't subscribe to anything just to subscribe; it has to have
value for me. I subscribed to Audible because I thought audiobooks might be a thing for me, but upon realizing it's not I cancelled my subscription. I do have a Spotify account that costs less than one new album per month and I can listen to almost any album in existence at any time (with a couple of exceptions I've found so far: Elektra's Rubaiyat retrospective album and the Deadicated tribute album).

As far as books go, I'm ok with reading books online if they're intended to
be read from front to back. For reference books or other books that are not intended to be read in that way, I definitely still prefer paper.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

On 06 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here; is it perhaps someth to do with owning a library of physical albums versus having a Spotif subscription, for example?

Absolutely, and I think I've seen a considerable shift in cultural
values over the past four decades - some good, some not so perhaps.

Interestingly, this has also made its way into the retrocomputing community. Back in the early 80s, anyone with a home computer probably also had either a box of cassettes or a flip-top diskette holder. Partially due to the poor
aging of storage devices and media from that era, devices were created that would store disk or tape images on some sort of modern flash-card-based
media. But now, due to the availability of cheap WiFi chips, more and more of those old machines are making their way onto the internet. Thanks to projects like the Fujinet, SpectraNet, and TIPI, it's no longer necessary to even have local copies of disk or cassette images; users can mount and use them over the internet. And that, I think, is amazing.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

As for myself, I've pretty much abandoned having a video or music library,in favor of streaming services.

Which is not to say that I was not extremely skeptical of music & video streaming at first, as well as download-based video game ownership versus more traditional cartridge- or media-based ownership.

However, I don't subscribe to anything just to subscribe; it has to have value for me. I subscribed to Audible because I thought audiobooks might be a thing for me, but upon realizing it's not I cancelled my subscription. I do have a Spotify account that costs less than one new album per month and I can listen to almost any album in existence at any time (with a couple of exceptions I've found so far: Elektra's Rubaiyat retrospective album and the Deadicated tribute album).

I got as far as ripping my CDs & DVDs in order to put them on a media server, but subscription services don't really hold any intrinsic value for me per se: I'm not really the eclectic type, and tend to watch the same Jimmy Stewart
film over and over again (much to my wife's chagrin).

That said however, we do subscribe to Sky and Netflix so the grandchildren
can watch "Teen Titans Go" or whatever happens to be flavour of the month. I personally begrudge the Sky subscription, but as I said, my threshold of compromise has been eroded over the years: I don't want my grandchildren to go without. There's a certain feeling of inner defeat/shame attached to paying a subscription for commercialised TV, but what can you do when love outweighs principle?

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

their way onto the internet. Thanks to projects like the Fujinet, SpectraNet, and TIPI, it's no longer necessary to even have local copies of disk or cassette images; users can mount and use them over the internet. And that, I think, is amazing.

This is precisely why chatting here is a good idea: this is news to me
and as you say, amazing.

I imagine SpectraNet has something of interest for me.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

On 06 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

their way onto the internet. Thanks to projects like the Fujinet, SpectraNet, and TIPI, it's no longer necessary to even have local cop of disk or cassette images; users can mount and use them over the internet. And that, I think, is amazing.

This is precisely why chatting here is a good idea: this is news to me
and as you say, amazing.
I imagine SpectraNet has something of interest for me.

The Spectranet is a modern peripheral for the ZX Spectrum (and clones). It attaches to the edge connector and provides network functionality. It
requires a LAN cable connection (no WiFi) and while using it the computer is limited to 48K BASIC (no 128K BASIC, although the full 128K is available to programs). It contains firmware that intercepts BASIC commands, adding a new syntax for users to access it from BASIC. It can also provide a socket interface, although that's only available via assembly programming. For file support it uses a protocol known as TNFS, and there are multiple TNFS servers set up to use. The protocol allows for auto-running a program when connecting to a TNFS server, so most of these are set up with menuing systems to help
you select which cassette image you want, much like a BBS.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

On 06 Jan 2022, TALIADON said the following...

I remember watching this with my boy back in the day and thinking to myself how unrealistic the AI was.

Fast forward to 2022: never underestimate your capacity to underestimate.

So, true... I never really thought much about the 'in-between' time of AI from the inception to skynet... it's always easier to examine the edge cases... and usually more interesting... but, it's everywhere now and no sign of skynet yet <g>

Although, I don't really think this limited form of AI is really capable of of ever reaching sentience... I think it will first take another evolutionary step, that I don't think we've a hint of yet... no rush.

_____________________________________________________________________

(,``,"> rusty sez... Re-livin' the dream...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: seeLive's rustyHedgehog - therhh.dynv6.net:2300 (21:2/128)

The Spectranet is a modern peripheral for the ZX Spectrum (and clones).

I had never heard of this. Thank you for the explanation!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022 at 01:50p, TALIADON pondered and said...

I'm in the process of setting up a Rpi for some future YouTube videos and guess what I added as the desktop today?

Amazing: Let's play the A47 game.

I found the Pi was complaining about the power supply so I have ordered a Rpi branded supply which do the trick and will arrive in the coming days...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/11/06 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I found the Pi was complaining about the power supply so I have ordered
a Rpi branded supply which do the trick and will arrive in the coming days...

Yep, that's pretty important. Obviously, the older (and low-powered) versions don't need much, but the Pi3 and Pi4 need a surprising amount of power...2.5 and 3 amps, respectively!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022, McDoob said the following...

The Spectranet is a modern peripheral for the ZX Spectrum (and clones

I had never heard of this. Thank you for the explanation!

No problem. I have one and enjoy it immensely. ByteDelight.com in the Netherlands will occasionally make a batch, but I don't know if he has any in stock right now. (I am not affiliated with ByteDelight.)

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

I found the Pi was complaining about the power supply so I have ordered
a Rpi branded supply which do the trick and will arrive in the coming days...

Not to worry: I'm just happy A47 tutorials are on your schedule.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

No problem. I have one and enjoy it immensely. ByteDelight.com in the Netherlands will occasionally make a batch, but I don't know if he has
any in stock right now. (I am not affiliated with ByteDelight.)

OK, I'm sold on this. There's a small backlog due to the global parts
shortage, but I don't mind waiting for this little gem.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

No problem. I have one and enjoy it immensely. ByteDelight.com in the Netherlands will occasionally make a batch, but I don't know if he has
any in stock right now. (I am not affiliated with ByteDelight.)

Not really an issue, as I don't have an actual ZX Spectrum. I just thought it was a cool invention...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

No problem. I have one and enjoy it immensely. ByteDelight.com in the Netherlands will occasionally make a batch, but I don't know if he ha any in stock right now. (I am not affiliated with ByteDelight.)

Not really an issue, as I don't have an actual ZX Spectrum. I just
thought it was a cool invention...

It is, and there are similar devices for many of the old 8-bit machines.

As far as not having an actual ZX Spectrum, if you're a decent solderer you
can remedy that with Harlequin kit, also available from ByteDelight.

The original ZX Spectrum required only one specialized chip: the ULA (an
early FPGA-like chip). However, it's been reverse-engineered and can be duplicated with commonly-available logic chips, albeit a large number of them which results in a somewhat tightly-packed circuit board.

I have not bought any Harlequin kits from ByteDelight, but have assembled several from other sources.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

On 07 Jan 2022 at 12:00a, TALIADON pondered and said...

Not to worry: I'm just happy A47 tutorials are on your schedule.

They are overdue... today I have been sending emails to about 13 nodes chasing them up re connecting for packets at 1/100 HUB. Gotta push through that housekeeping first, also adding some nodes etc. etc.

I plan to re-watch the old videos so I can note what I want to change about them, then will start to re-do them thereafter.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/11/06 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

As far as not having an actual ZX Spectrum, if you're a decent solderer you can remedy that with Harlequin kit, also available from ByteDelight.

Sure you're not sponsored? ;)

I used to be pretty good with a soldering iron, but it has been a long time, and I don't have an iron anymore...If I was going to take on a project like that, it'd probably be a C64 clone, though...No offense to ZX Spectrum, but I never owned one, and I did a C64, for a long time.

The original ZX Spectrum required only one specialized chip: the ULA (an early FPGA-like chip). However, it's been reverse-engineered and can be duplicated with commonly-available logic chips, albeit a large number of them which results in a somewhat tightly-packed circuit board.

That's a problem for C64, from what I've heard...I think the SID chip hasn't been reverse-engineered...

I have a few projects, PiBBS for instance, that should keep me busy for at least the winter, anyway.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022, McDoob said the following...

As far as not having an actual ZX Spectrum, if you're a decent solder you can remedy that with Harlequin kit, also available from ByteDelig

Sure you're not sponsored? ;)

Yep! Not sponsored, just enthused. I've never bought a Harlequin kit from ByteDelight; I bought mine directly from their creator, Don Superfo. He has a wide range of Harlequin kits with various capabilities: NTSC, PAL, SD mass storage, CF mass storage, built-in Wi-Fi modem... However, he doesn't make or sell the keyboards and cases. I got my keyboards/cases from Djordje Mitik in China, but he is often backlogged and Chinese shipping can be slow.

I used to be pretty good with a soldering iron, but it has been a long time, and I don't have an iron anymore...If I was going to take on a project like that, it'd probably be a C64 clone, though...No offense to
ZX Spectrum, but I never owned one, and I did a C64, for a long time.

`
I didn't own a C64, either, but had some friends who did. If someone made a
C64 kit, though... I'd be all over that.

The original ZX Spectrum required only one specialized chip: the ULA early FPGA-like chip). However, it's been reverse-engineered and can duplicated with commonly-available logic chips, albeit a large number them which results in a somewhat tightly-packed circuit board.

That's a problem for C64, from what I've heard...I think the SID chip hasn't been reverse-engineered...

Yeah, I don't think so, either. There are still some out there, though;
they're quite popular in the chiptune community, I think. The same is true of the Atari 8-bits; they had specialized CTIA/GTIA, ANTIC, and POKEY chips.

I have a few projects, PiBBS for instance, that should keep me busy for
at least the winter, anyway.

Always good to have a hobby, especially in these times! What are your goals
for PiBBS, be they general or specific?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

I didn't own a C64, either, but had some friends who did. If someone
made a C64 kit, though... I'd be all over that.

Oh, there's at least one! Hang on, let me see if I can find the right YT video...

https://youtu.be/ZtpRdVTuHQw

That's a full size C64 kit. (SID & VIC chips not included ;) )

Another kit I'm really interested is called the 'Chickenlips 16'. Formerly known as the Commander x16, the creators got a 'friendly' letter from
someone's lawyer requesting that they not use that name...

t's not a C64 clone, though. It's a completely new design, based on the C64/Vic-20. It's being worked on by a group that includes a couple of my favorite YT retro-tech personalities.

It's still just a prototype, and not really a kit computer, but it looks to be very interesting:

https://youtu.be/ayh0qebfD2g
https://youtu.be/sg-6cjzzg8s
https://youtu.be/PWBUMgAl7wY
https://youtu.be/hu3QzMsKb9U

The last video also features a Vic-20 kit computer.

Always good to have a hobby, especially in these times! What are your goals for PiBBS, be they general or specific?

Well, my current goal is to make PiBBS look a LOT less like a generic Mystic install. :) After that, I'll be working on getting some door games installed.

Beyond that, I'm not certain. Really, I just built it to see if I could, on a Pi. The theme, if it's not obvious, will be Pi-centric; lots of stuff for and about the Raspberry Pi.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022, McDoob said the following...

I didn't own a C64, either, but had some friends who did. If someone made a C64 kit, though... I'd be all over that.

Oh, there's at least one! Hang on, let me see if I can find the right YT video...

[...]

The last video also features a Vic-20 kit computer.

Awesome! I'll definitely take a look at these!

Always good to have a hobby, especially in these times! What are your goals for PiBBS, be they general or specific?

Well, my current goal is to make PiBBS look a LOT less like a generic Mystic install. :) After that, I'll be working on getting some door
games installed.
Beyond that, I'm not certain. Really, I just built it to see if I could, on a Pi. The theme, if it's not obvious, will be Pi-centric; lots of
stuff for and about the Raspberry Pi.

Mine is also running on a Pi. For a while, I had it running on a Pi Zero. Of course, it's not public yet so there wasn't a lot to really stress it out.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

Mine is also running on a Pi. For a while, I had it running on a Pi
Zero. Of course, it's not public yet so there wasn't a lot to really stress it out.

PiBBS is running on a 3B+...along with a couple of other projects...So far, there hasn't been any significant draw on resources, but then again, PiBBS
only has maybe half a dozen users right now...It's only been online for a month...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022, McDoob said the following...

PiBBS is running on a 3B+...along with a couple of other projects...So far, there hasn't been any significant draw on resources, but then
again, PiBBS only has maybe half a dozen users right now...It's only
been online for a month...

Same here. I think that should definitely suffice. The only problem I foresee is the SD card. If power outages are common in your area, you might consider
a UPS (which, for a Pi, can be as simple as a hefty USB power bank that's always plugged in. SD cards are notorious for getting scrambled when there's
a sudden loss of power. Like, won't even boot anymore scrambled. Sometimes
you can reformat them, sometimes not, but either way you've lost your data.

Also, be sure to backup to some non-SD-based system often.

I'm not poo-pooing the Pi by any means; I have several and absolutely love them! The SD card just a known weakness and it's happened to me.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

Same here. I think that should definitely suffice. The only problem I foresee is the SD card. If power outages are common in your area, you might consider a UPS (which, for a Pi, can be as simple as a hefty USB power bank that's always plugged in. SD cards are notorious for getting scrambled when there's a sudden loss of power. Like, won't even boot anymore scrambled. Sometimes you can reformat them, sometimes not, but either way you've lost your data.

Also, be sure to backup to some non-SD-based system often.

You are absolutely correct, sir! It has happened to me once already, just by hitting the power switch at the wrong time. I'm thinking about using a cheap external SSD for the /home drive, at least. For now, though, I'm stuck with
the 32GB SD card that's in it.

I make (somewhat) regular backups of at least PiBBS on my main PC. And the Pi is plugged into the same UPS as the PC, and the router. Unfortunately, my
modem is in my kitchen, and my UPS is in my living room...but at least I can still perform a safe shutdown when needed!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On 06 Jan 2022, Jeff said the following...

No problem. I have one and enjoy it immensely. ByteDelight.com i Netherlands will occasionally make a batch, but I don't know if any in stock right now. (I am not affiliated with ByteDelight.)

Not really an issue, as I don't have an actual ZX Spectrum. I just thought it was a cool invention...

In my opinion, the FujiNet device is the coolest of them all. Inspired by the Spectranet and TI-99/4a TIPI (which contains an RPi Zero), and the lack of
such a device for the Atari 8-bit home computers, it delivered that functionality and so much more. It was originally developed for the Ataris,
but development has been extended to the C64, Apple ][, even the Coleco Adam!

The FujiNet offers local disk image hosting on an SD card and access to disk image servers on the internet. But there's so much more to it! Its driver is written in such a way that sockets can be treated exactly like disk files in AtariBASIC and other languages. The FujiNet itself handles the encryption needed for secure connections, meaning that it's entirely transparent to the Atari. It can decode JSON files/responses and the Atari can request them record-by-record. It even features a SAM speech synthesizer* that can be accessed as a printer.

Speaking of printers, it can also act as a period-appropriate printer. By accessing its built-in web server over a network connection, the type of printer can be selected from a range of options (OkiData, Epson, etc.). When the Atari prints something, it gets converted into a PDF using the actual
font (dot matrix and all!) of the emulated printer. This PDF can then be downloaded to a computer via the built-in web server and printed (or
whatever).

There was an unusual peripheral for the Ataris known as the ATR8000 that was essentially a CP/M computer that used the Atari as a terminal. The FujiNet contains an emulated Z80 processor running CP/M; all that need to be done to access it is to load a terminal program, set the baud rate to 9600, and enter the pseudo-Hayes-style command ATCPM.

I have two of these and they are absolutely amazing. Users developed
networked apps to monitor the 2020 election results in real time (and that's
as political as I'm going to get), as well as a weather app that displays the current weather in the user's area -- in real time -- as well as a forecast
for upcoming days. On an Atari 8-bit!

Jeff.

* The Atari itself does not do the speech synthesis; the FujiNet does. The Atari Home computers had a cassette interface, but only one track of the cassette was used for data. The other track could contain music or other
audio data, and this would be patched directly to the television speaker, providing something for the user to listen to while a program was being
loaded. The FujiNet exploits this to send speech synthesis audio directly to the TV speaker.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (21:1/180)

That's a problem for C64, from what I've heard...I think the SID chip hasn't been reverse-engineered...

TBH, even commodore had difficulty in maintaining the analogue nuances (filter response in particular) between the 6581 & 8580 revisions. Like all analogue designs; layout, substrate, masking, lithography, and manufacture, are all components of signal fidelity & frequency response. With the 6581 in particular, Bob Yannes decided to employ rather than mitigate these nuances;
as the silicon/process nuances changed, so did the signal. If you isolate
and play the 6581 & 8580 side-by-side, the differences are certainly perceptible to the human ear.

Unlike most analogue engineers, Bob didn't seem too concerned about marginal parasitics: why add more silicon when you can simply add more 'features'.
This unique (and rather clever IMHO) approach gave the original SID a very unique timbre that's difficult to reproduce in its entirety.

As far as re-engineering goes, I think the SwinSID is as good as it gets, at least for now.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

I plan to re-watch the old videos so I can note what I want to change about them, then will start to re-do them thereafter.

We're just grateful for your efforts; whatever is convenient for you my
friend.

o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
TALIADON | 2:250/6 | 21:3/138 | TALIADON-BBS@MAIL.COM | o-----------o-----------o------------o-------------------------o
| "Error is a great teacher, and humility its hardest lesson." | o--------------------------------------------------------------o

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: TALIADON BBS (21:3/138)

I didn't own a C64, either, but had some friends who did. If

someone

made a C64 kit, though... I'd be all over that.

Oh, there's at least one! Hang on, let me see if I can find the right
YT
video...

This sent me down a YT rabbit hole, thank you! Stumbled on the Mega65
project mentioned in The 8 But Guy's video -- it looks amazing. Not in production yet, but they are taking pre-orders. Indsutrial design is retro-fantastic.

https://mega65.org/

"THE 21ST CENTURY REALIZATION OF THE C65 HERITAGE: A COMPLETE 8-BIT
COMPUTER RUNNING AROUND 40X FASTER THAN A C64 WHILE BEING HIGHLY
COMPATIBLE. C65 DESIGN, MECHANICAL KEYBOARD, HD OUTPUT, SD CARD SUPPORT, ETHERNET, EXTENDED MEMORY AND OTHER FEATURES INCREASE THE FUN WITHOUT
SPOILING THE 8-BIT FEEL. HARDWARE DESIGNS AND SOFTWARE ARE OPEN-SOURCE
(LGPL)."


|04a|12LPHA
|03Alpha Complex |15- |11alphacomplex.us:2323

--- Talisman v0.35-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: aLPHA cOMPLEX: You are in Error. No one is screaming. (21:4/158)

This sent me down a YT rabbit hole, thank you! Stumbled on the Mega65 project mentioned in The 8 But Guy's video -- it looks amazing. Not in production yet, but they are taking pre-orders. Indsutrial design is retro-fantastic.

Don't thank me, thank the guys making the videos! As 8-Bit-Guy said, the
Mega65 may never actually reach production, or may be prohibitively expensive if it does. I agree, it's a cool idea. But don't hold your breath.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

Don't thank me, thank the guys making the videos! As 8-Bit-Guy said,
the
Mega65 may never actually reach production, or may be prohibitively expensive
if it does. I agree, it's a cool idea. But don't hold your breath.

They are listing it for like $800 USD right now. So yeah, too expensive
for my hobby tastes, might as well and try and find working vintage!


|04a|12LPHA
|03Alpha Complex |15- |11alphacomplex.us:2323

--- Talisman v0.35-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: aLPHA cOMPLEX: You are in Error. No one is screaming. (21:4/158)

On 2022-01-06 15:57 Jeff said...

I'm not poo-pooing the Pi by any means; I have several and absolutely love them! The SD card just a known weakness and it's happened to me.

Same here, I have a bunch, the latest being a Pi3 running RetroPie and Kodi for my TV.
But indeed, SD cards are their weakness, and I've had most of the use-cases
die on me when the SD card dies. What you said about the power loss and power issues is probably the cause indeed, I thought it had to do with overclocking, but the root cause is probably the power indeed.

When overclocking more power is needed, so I guess that has been the cause of mine dying mostly.

There is one sitting in a closet at work that has been powered on since 2012, on the same SD card, but the thing is that it is not overclocked - I now realize.

Best regards
//beardy

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.22.7)
* Origin: BodaX BBS ~ bbs.beardy.se:23 / SSH port 22 (21:3/158)

On 2022-01-06 17:23 Jeff said...

In my opinion, the FujiNet device is the coolest of them all. Inspired by the Spectranet and TI-99/4a TIPI (which contains an RPi Zero), and the lack of such a device for the Atari 8-bit home computers, it delivered that functionality and so much more. It was originally developed for the Ataris, but development has been extended to the C64, Apple ][, even the Coleco Adam!

Wow, that sounds really cool, I have to look into getting one of those..
I have some C64's that I want to use properly some time, but I only have a
tape drive, and a disk drive, no modern disk emulation devices, yet.

Best regards
//beardy

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.22.7)
* Origin: BodaX BBS ~ bbs.beardy.se:23 / SSH port 22 (21:3/158)

love them! The SD card just a known weakness and it's happened to

me.

Same here, I have a bunch, the latest being a Pi3 running RetroPie and
Kodi for my TV.
But indeed, SD cards are their weakness, and I've had most of the
use-cases
die on me when the SD card dies. What you said about the power loss
and power
issues is probably the cause indeed, I thought it had to do with overclocking,
but the root cause is probably the power indeed.

Just fried an SD card on my RetroPie last week when I installed my Pi in a
3D printed case I got online (it looks like a mini Amiga 1200, couldn't
resist) and the case wasn't well designed, it was touching the SD card
area and it melted the PLA and a little hole in SD card. Lesson learned.


|04a|12LPHA
|03Alpha Complex |15- |11alphacomplex.us:2323

--- Talisman v0.35-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: aLPHA cOMPLEX: You are in Error. No one is screaming. (21:4/158)

resist) and the case wasn't well designed, it was touching the SD card area and it melted the PLA and a little hole in SD card. Lesson learned.

Wow! How did it get so hot?

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

On Netflix 'The social Dilemma' really shows how bad, bad is. It's mostly interviews with key players from silicon valley and how absolutely afraid they are of what they've created... if they feel it out of control...

That was a freaky documentary, and an important watch!. We don't realize how easily we can be maniuplated without even knowing it's happening!

The timing of writing part 3 of 'Back to the BBS' was timely, as I had just watched the Social Dilemma at the time. I do think that some of the points
are a little twee in the way they are introduced, but still, it gets the
point across and it was great to be able to quote parts of that doco in mine
to try and cajole people across from the 'Social' web owned by a few conglomerates back to the BBS... :)

Cheers,
Al


hyjinx // Alistair Ross
Author of 'Back to the BBS' Documentary: https://bit.ly/3tRINeL (YouTube) alsgeeklab.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Al's Geek Lab -=- bbs.alsgeeklab.com:2323 (21:1/126)

area and it melted the PLA and a little hole in SD card. Lesson

learned.

Wow! How did it get so hot?

yeah, I don't know. When I pulled the Pi out, the PLA was still all melty
and came away like pulling a grilled cheese sandwhich apart. Needless to
say, that case (which is beautiful) is now just Desk Art.




|04a|12LPHA
|03Alpha Complex |15- |11alphacomplex.us:2323

--- Talisman v0.35-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: aLPHA cOMPLEX: You are in Error. No one is screaming. (21:4/158)

I know nothing about Gemini, but am aware some people are still playing with Gopher servers. I've never set one up myself. maybe I should
as an exercise some day. :)

I had someone try and enveigle me into setting up pineapple.zapto.org as a gopher site. It looked like to much effort and beyond my wheel house after having just wrassled PHP and MySQL to a stand still for it.

There are meant to be more gopher sites kicking around now than there were in its "hey day" By an order of magnitude I believe. But since that brief
flicker of interest I haven't looked sideways at it again.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

I had someone try and enveigle me into setting up pineapple.zapto.org as
a gopher site. It looked like to much effort and beyond my wheel house after having just wrassled PHP and MySQL to a stand still for it.

Gopher was a lot easier than I thought it would be and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

More of an hour-or-two project rather than a whole weekend, if you ever get the urge or you get bored or something

With modern, up-to-date distributions, you will want to use this fork, which works with Python3.x if that is what is running on your system:

https://github.com/michael-lazar/pygopherd

From there it's a matter of ensuring you have a service file for it if you're using a systemd-based OS so it can start at boot. You can probably just grab one from someone if you ever decide to do it. Just ask.

Then, you need a gophermap file which is the index file pointing at resources.

I think I did it one night when I had insomnia, never having attempted it before.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Shipwrecks & Shibboleths [San Francisco, CA - USA] (21:1/227)

I know nothing about Gemini, but am aware some people are still playi with Gopher servers. I've never set one up myself. maybe I should
as an exercise some day. :)

I had someone try and enveigle me into setting up pineapple.zapto.org as
a gopher site. It looked like to much effort and beyond my wheel house after having just wrassled PHP and MySQL to a stand still for it.

There are meant to be more gopher sites kicking around now than there
were in its "hey day" By an order of magnitude I believe. But since
that brief flicker of interest I haven't looked sideways at it again.

Spec

There are a lot of gopher and gemini sites, or capsules, as they are known in the gemini world. The problem is there isn't much there that is good. Content matters more than form, and it doesn't really mean much if the format is light and easy on resources, when what is on there isn't really all that interesting.

Many sites are either copies of web sites, or blogs of people wanting to phlog or use gemini.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Gopher was a lot easier than I thought it would be and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Getting the server installed was the easy part. I didn't find a lot that was useful initially on trying to convert my existing data to be gohper friendly
so adding useful content to it was problematic. As I mentioned though, my overclocked chimp brain had just finished coping with PHP/mysql and the odd apache foible and was feeling a little burned out and just shoved it in the
too hard basket.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

There are a lot of gopher and gemini sites, or capsules, as they are known in the gemini world. The problem is there isn't much there that is good.

Sounds suspiciously similar to WWW :P


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

On 04-17-22 20:24, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

There are meant to be more gopher sites kicking around now than there
were in its "hey day" By an order of magnitude I believe. But since
that brief flicker of interest I haven't looked sideways at it again.

Yeah, I haven't looked into setting up a Gopher. Maybe one day, though I've been heavily sidetracked by RoIP servers. :)


... To do an injustice is infinitely more disgraceful than to suffer one!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)