Hi guys,

I need some feedback regarding quoting before I move on. Currently in
Magicka (as Oli pointed out) quoting isn't ideal. Quotes of quotes (and
quotes of quotes of quotes) get chopped off to fit in 80 columns.

This makes readability a bit of a problem.

As a solution, I've gone with fsc-0032.001 proposal, but this has it's
own drawbacks. Mainly because of message editors that do not wrap lines.

In an ideal world, I'd just rewrap the quote easily, however due to
mystic already rewrapping messages in transit (and at 80 columns - so no
room for initials) I'd then have to unwrap and rewrap messages, which
poses a problem with intentionally wrapped messages. Ie someone pressed
enter.

Right now I have somewhat of a solution inplace on nocturnal (nocturnal.hopto.org:2023) but before I start pulling my hair out trying
to come up with an ideal solution, I've got to ask is it worth it? Only
one person has ever complained about the current quote setup in the years
it's been in place..

Also keep in mind, there is no agreed upon standard (that I can find) for quoting messages, all I could find was this proposal.

So if you want to check out nocturnal messages (please do) and have any suggestions on how we can tackle this problem, or if you have any ideas,
please let me know. Once I put something in place, everyone has to deal
with it, so it's important to me to get as much feedback first as I can.

Andrew


--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: HappyLand - telnet://magickabbs.com:2023/ (21:1/126)

I need some feedback regarding quoting before I move on. Currently in Magicka (as Oli pointed out) quoting isn't ideal. Quotes of quotes (and quotes of quotes of quotes) get chopped off to fit in 80 columns.

Yep, I have seen that too. I haven't commented because I'm sure you know
this and it's something that I'm sure will come together as we go..

As a solution, I've gone with fsc-0032.001 proposal, but this has it's
own drawbacks. Mainly because of message editors that do not wrap lines.

I hope that at some point editors will not wrap lines. It would be much
easier to wrap as we need if they were not already wrapped.

In an ideal world, I'd just rewrap the quote easily, however due to
mystic already rewrapping messages in transit (and at 80 columns - so no room for initials) I'd then have to unwrap and rewrap messages, which poses a problem with intentionally wrapped messages. Ie someone pressed enter.

I sure wish that I was aware of this before g00r00 left to take care of
RL stuff. I'm hopefull he will be at the table in time.

Right now I have somewhat of a solution inplace on nocturnal (nocturnal.hopto.org:2023) but before I start pulling my hair out trying to come up with an ideal solution, I've got to ask is it worth it? Only one person has ever complained about the current quote setup in the years it's been in place..

This is the first I have seen it and it looks good to me. I will give you
feed back as we move along.

Also keep in mind, there is no agreed upon standard (that I can find) for quoting messages, all I could find was this proposal.

Yes, if we could figure out what standard we are useing.. and if everyone
was on board we could make progress.

please let me know. Once I put something in place, everyone has to deal with it, so it's important to me to get as much feedback first as I can.

I will do so.. :)

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

I need some feedback regarding quoting before I move on. Currently in Magicka (as Oli pointed out) quoting isn't ideal. Quotes of quotes (a quotes of quotes of quotes) get chopped off to fit in 80 columns.

Yep, I have seen that too. I haven't commented because I'm sure you k
this and it's something that I'm sure will come together as we go..

As a solution, I've gone with fsc-0032.001 proposal, but this has it'
own drawbacks. Mainly because of message editors that do not wrap lin

I hope that at some point editors will not wrap lines. It would be mu easier to wrap as we need if they were not already wrapped.

Yep, it would be a fairly big overhaul in magicka to do this, and I'm not
sure it's worth it until the mystic bug is fixed.

Right now I have somewhat of a solution inplace on nocturnal (nocturnal.hopto.org:2023) but before I start pulling my hair out try
to come up with an ideal solution, I've got to ask is it worth it? On
one person has ever complained about the current quote setup in the y
it's been in place..

This is the first I have seen it and it looks good to me. I will give
feed back as we move along.

Thanks, I'm sure there are still some bugs to work out. I'm not sure how
this message in the web editor will turn out..

Andrew

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

Thanks, I'm sure there are still some bugs to work out. I'm not sure
this message in the web editor will turn out..

Hmm. Looks like there is still chopping off happening in the web side.

Andrew

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

I need some feedback regarding quoting before I move on. Currently in Magicka (as Oli pointed out) quoting isn't ideal. Quotes of quotes (and quotes of quotes of quotes) get chopped off to fit in 80 columns.

Yep, I have seen that too. I haven't commented because I'm sure you know this and it's something that I'm sure will come together as we go..

As a solution, I've gone with fsc-0032.001 proposal, but this has it's
own drawbacks. Mainly because of message editors that do not wrap lines.

Just seeing if any of these quotes are cut off

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

Thanks, I'm sure there are still some bugs to work out. I'm not sure how this message in the web editor will turn out..

Probably, the saying "software means never having to say your done" comes
to mind. :)

We know where we are going and we'll get there. Probaly not today but we
will get there.

Ttyl :-)
Al

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Thanks, I'm sure there are still some bugs to work out. I'm not sure how this message in the web editor will turn out..

Probably, the saying "software means never having to say your done" comes to mind. :)

I've been working on this wrapping most of today, and I think I'm at a
point where I'm happy with it.

We know where we are going and we'll get there. Probaly not today but we will get there.

Yeah, I think I'll leave it until at least tomorrow, I want to make sure
Tiny and some others have a chance to put in their 2 cents. Then I'll
merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

Andrew

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

On 23 Oct 2019 at 03:04p, apam pondered and said...

merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

You break it, you bought it :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hi Andrew,

As a solution, I've gone with fsc-0032.001 proposal, but this has it's
own drawbacks. Mainly because of message editors that do not wrap
lines.

Which editors do not wrap (long) lines when displaying a message? They have a problem anyway and can only survive in a network where all mails are distributed over a MysticBBS backbone, that rewraps everything in transit (if the editor is used with Mystic, it's not a problem).

In an ideal world, I'd just rewrap the quote easily, however due to
mystic already rewrapping messages in transit (and at 80 columns - so
no room for initials) I'd then have to unwrap and rewrap messages,
which poses a problem with intentionally wrapped messages. Ie someone pressed enter.

Rewrapping: I think there will always be some false positives, but thats fine. It doesn't have to be perfect. timed is very proud of it's rewrapping abilities, you could get some inspiration there / steal some code. Golded also does a pretty good job. But I guess you figured it out and it's already good enough in Magicka.

Only one person has ever complained about the current quote setup
in the years it's been in place..

It's amazing what the brain can filter out. I didn't recognized the things I complained about for weeks.

Also keep in mind, there is no agreed upon standard (that I can find)
for quoting messages, all I could find was this proposal.

Yes and no. FSC doesn't mean much, some FSCs are essential (FSC-0039), some are
just ideas that never were implemented and with some it's not clear. FSC-0032 describes pretty much exactly what all the good Fidonet message editors do. It's also the most readable and visually pleasing solution (IMHO). If newer software uses different quoting styles, especially the software that is used in
this network, that's another story. Yes, there are different ways to quote a message, but in Fidonet there is broad agreement that:

1) long lines / unwrapped paragraphs are perfectly fine
2) quotes start with ">", "F>", "FL>" or "FML>" (First, Middle, Last name)
3) it's common practice to add ">" characters for nested quotes like ">>", "FL>>", "FL>>>", ...
4) you don't quote empty lines

everything else is undefined and freestyle.



--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: format of this message has been mangled by Mystic BBS (21:1/151)

I've been working on this wrapping most of today, and I think I'm at a point where I'm happy with it.

Sounds good.. :)

I'm going to get caught up with the new scripts now..

Ttyl :-)
Al

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Yeah, I think I'll leave it until at least tomorrow, I want to make
sure Tiny and some others have a chance to put in their 2 cents. Then
I'll merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

When my reply from my own BBS gets here..... I guess possibly you were working on this at the time so it doesn't matter. :)

Looks good on the telnet end.

Shawn


--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

Yeah, I think I'll leave it until at least tomorrow, I want to make
sure Tiny and some others have a chance to put in their 2 cents. Then
I'll merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

When my reply from my own BBS gets here..... I guess possibly you
were working on this at the time so it doesn't matter. :)

Not sure what you mean.. were you trying out the wordwrap branch? If so,
yes I've been pushing a ton of commits the last few hours. Though I
think I've got it now :)

I think I booted someone off Nocturnal too, might have been you, in my
flurry of commit, pull, test, commit, pull test :P

Andrew

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

Yeah, I think I'll leave it until at least tomorrow, I want to make
sure Tiny and some others have a chance to put in their 2 cents. Then
I'll merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

When my reply from my own BBS gets here..... I guess possibly you
were working on this at the time so it doesn't matter. :)

Not sure what you mean.. were you trying out the wordwrap branch? If
so, yes I've been pushing a ton of commits the last few hours. Though I think I've got it now :)

I think I booted someone off Nocturnal too, might have been you, in my flurry of commit, pull, test, commit, pull test :P

This reply is just a test to make sure the www side still works, and
with the wrapping of long lines so I'm just waffling on a bit. To make
the line longer you see. That should do it.

Andrew

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Nocturnal - nocturnal.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)

Quoting apam to Al <=-

Yeah, I think I'll leave it until at least tomorrow, I want to make
sure Tiny and some others have a chance to put in their 2 cents. Then
I'll merge it and deal with the breakage ;P

Checked it out, it looks okay to me. Granted it's not perfect but
what is?

I'm perfectly fine with whatever solution you come up with.
I personally don't mind when quotes of quotes etc are cut off so I'm
good with it all. :)

Shawn

... The trouble with living sacrifices is that they crawl off the altar.SEEN-BY: 1/100 130
SEEN-BY: 1/1 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 108 109 111 116 121 124 125 126 130 SEEN-BY: 134 137 140 141 142 144 146 148 149 150 151 152 154 158 161 164 167 SEEN-BY: 168 172 174 178 180 185 186 189 194 195 197 200 201 202 203 2/100 SEEN-BY: 3/100 4/100

Hello apam!

23 Oct 19 21:42, you wrote to me:

I think I booted someone off Nocturnal too, might have been you, in my flurry of commit, pull, test, commit, pull test :P

That is what I was talking about. TOo early in the morning for me to make sense. LOL

Shawn


... History tends to exaggerate.
--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20160201
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (21:1/130)