│ Thanks I hope to enjoy it. It certainly brings back memories of when I got my │ first PC.
│ Hell the funny thing is I can still tell you the stats for my first PC (but not
│ any machines
│ after that).
└─[N=>DW]

LOL, I think I can also.

8088-XT clone with 640k RAM, a 5.25 floppy, and a 20MB HD, running MS-DOS
3.3. CGA color graphics.

The second was a 386 DX 40 with 1 MB RAM (which I immediately upgraded to
4MB), a 120MB HD, 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, running MS-DOS 5.0. I very shortly after added Desqview to it. I don't remember if it had VGA or
SVGA, though. ;)

##Mmr 2.61ß. !link N 12-31-25 8:35
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Wow, DESQview. Now that is something I haven't heard in a long time. It was interesting times when that stuff was out. I remember using a Windows 3.1
with a PC Tools desktop replacement that had features that were way ahead of it's time (Virtual Desktops), the ability to have folders on the desktop,
hell the ability to have a folder that had a filter of files in a directory
(so you could point it to say c:\files with a filter of *.txt and only get
text files), and a bunch of other things included. I still say that desktop
was better than what showed up when Win95 came out, and it was running on
top of Windows 3.1 go figure.

MIKE POWELL wrote to NBLADE <=-

The second was a 386 DX 40 with 1 MB RAM (which I immediately upgraded
to 4MB), a 120MB HD, 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, running MS-DOS 5.0. I very shortly after added Desqview to it. I don't remember if it had
VGA or SVGA, though. ;)

... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: nblade to MIKE POWELL on Fri Jan 02 2026 09:44 am

Wow, DESQview. Now that is something I haven't heard in a long time. It was interesting times when that stuff was out. I remember using a Windows 3.1 with a PC Tools desktop replacement that had features that were way ahead of it's time (Virtual Desktops), the ability to have folders on the desktop, hell the ability to have a folder that had a filter of files in a directory (so you could point it to say c:\files with a filter of *.txt and only get text files), and a bunch of other things included. I still say that desktop was better than what showed up when Win95 came out, and it was running on top of Windows 3.1 go figure.

That's cool. I didn't know PC Tools made a desktop replacement for Windows 3.1.. When I used Windows 3.1, there were one or two desktop enhancements I remember using - I don't remember which it was, but I remember something where one of the features was displaying the time in the top border of any application, which I thought was useful (Windows 3.1 didn't have a bottom taskbar to show the time).

I still like desktop enhancements like that when I can find them.

Nightfox

nblade wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

Windows 3.1 with a PC Tools desktop replacement that had features that were way ahead of it's time (Virtual Desktops), the ability to have folders on the desktop, hell the ability to have a folder that had a filter of files in a directory (so you could point it to say c:\files
with a filter of *.txt and only get text files), and a bunch of other things included. I still say that desktop was better than what showed
up when Win95 came out, and it was running on top of Windows 3.1 go figure.

Norton Desktop was a nice one, too - I remember a couple of guys using
that at work. IBM had promised a workplace shell for Windows, giving it
the object-oriented UI of OS/2, but I never saw it in the wild.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

MIKE POWELL wrote to NBLADE <=-

8088-XT clone with 640k RAM, a 5.25 floppy, and a 20MB HD, running
MS-DOS 3.3. CGA color graphics.

DTK XT clone. I put an NEC V20 chip in it. Seagate ST225 20MB drive.
Hercules graphics, green 12" monitor. MS-DOS 3.3.

I bought it used, the seller included a full HD of software - Word for
DOS, Word Perfect, Wordstar, old 1-2-3, AutoCAD, and more.

I used it to compile code with Microsoft Quick C for classes. It was
certainly fast enough for the code I was writing...



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: poindexter FORTRAN to nblade on Fri Jan 02 2026 12:18 pm

Norton Desktop was a nice one, too - I remember a couple of guys using that at work. IBM had promised a workplace shell for Windows, giving it the object-oriented UI of OS/2, but I never saw it in the wild.

That would have been interesting from IBM. I feel like IBM could have promoted OS/2 better overall.. It felt like a more robust OS than Windows, and I think it would have been good to see it be more popular and continue to be improved over time.

These days though, I feel like it's good to have open-source OS options like Linux. I've considered switching entirely to Linux, but the thing that keeps me using Windows on my main PC is the software library. Part of that is I like PC games sometimes, and it seems to me it's still easiest on Windows. I've heard gaming support has improved quite a bit on Linux, but there are more steps you need to go through to get games working. I think there are still some games that don't really work well (or not at all) on Linux that I play, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.

Overall I don't really have many problems with Windows (despite a lot of people complaining about Windows). I think the only thing that bugs me sometimes is that I normally like to have my desktop wallpaper set to be a slideshow, and sometimes Windows automatically changes it back to a single photo, and I haven't quite figured out why that happens yet. But I suspect it might have something to do with power saving (I haven't looked into that deeply yet).

Currently, I have Linux on my BBS PC, and on my main PC, I dual-boot Windows and Linux. I'm in Windows on my main PC most of the time though.

Also, I'm still curious to see how Haiku OS develops. I had tried BeOS for a bit in 1998, and I thought it was a nice OS. But these days, I'm not holding out any hope that Haiku will gain much traction (at least, not any time soon).

Nightfox

Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: nblade to MIKE POWELL on Fri Jan 02 2026 09:44:00

Wow, DESQview. Now that is something I haven't heard in a long time.

I had the DOS version, great program. I tried to get my workplace to use it, but they didn't see the need. Oddly enough, they did go for getting Borland's Sidekick, a TSR suite of utilitys like a notepad, calendar, etc. It used a windowing format like Desqview.
--- SBBSecho 3.31-Linux
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That would have been interesting from IBM. I feel like IBM could have promoted OS/2 better overall.. It felt like a more robust OS than

From what I remember of that time, that seems to be accurate. I don't think
IBM did a good job doing that. I don't think I ever really thought about
using OS/2, although I did know one guy at a job I had that was really
in love with.

Part of that is I like PC games sometimes, and it seems to me it's
still easiest on Windows. I've heard gaming support has improved quite

It is getting better. I do some light gaming on my Linux machine but I pretty stopped doing a lot of complex gaming on PCs. Which is why don't have a windows machine (except in a VM for some HAM radio stuff). I know for the things
my wife does, she got tired of a lot of things Windows does. Since she mostly just using the web browser, I got her on Linux. As a basic user, she is happy and she doesn't get weird popup or long load times. Still for someone that is a heavy gamer, I can understand why one would want to still do Windows.

Also, I'm still curious to see how Haiku OS develops. I had tried BeOS for a bit in 1998, and I thought it was a nice OS. But these days, I'm not holding out any hope that Haiku will gain much traction (at least,
not any time soon).

Never really tried either of those, although I remember seeing the BeOS software
boxes in the stores and was tempted to try it out, I just never did. Was there something in BeOS that you really liked?



... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: nblade to Nightfox on Fri Jan 02 2026 02:40 pm

Also, I'm still curious to see how Haiku OS develops. I had tried BeOS
for a bit in 1998, and I thought it was a nice OS. But these days, I'm
not holding out any hope that Haiku will gain much traction (at least,
not any time soon).

Never really tried either of those, although I remember seeing the BeOS software
boxes in the stores and was tempted to try it out, I just never did. Was there something in BeOS that you really liked?

I never saw the Be boxes in stores; I remember happening upon an article in my high school library that mentioned BeOS and the BeBox (I don't remember how I found that in the library now), and I later learned they ported BeOS to Intel-compatible PCs, and I decided to buy a copy to try on one of my PCs.

There were a couple things I really liked about BeOS: It had great performance (particularly with multi-tasking), and I think the GUI looked really nice too. I think the GUI had a sort of artistic quality to it with high-quality UI widgets and nice-looking icons. As far as the performance, as an example of its multi-tasking performance, it had a demo app that would display a rotating cube, and you could drag & drop videos on all 6 faces of the cube and it would play each video while rotating the cube without skipping a beat. And on mid-late 90s computer hardware, this seemed impressive at the time.

When I first tried BeOS, I had a thought that from the appearance of the GUI, it looked like something Apple would make. I later learned that Be's founder, Jean-Louis Gassee, was a former Apple employee, and Apple considered buying Be and BeOS (making that the basis for the next Mac OS) before eventually deciding to buy NeXT, to be the basis for Mac OS X (& bringing back Steve Jobs).

Nightfox

People are now advocating not working like gangbusters in your later
life, instead retire more reasonably and enjoy life while you can.

I assume that means "not working" as in employment, while remaining active otherwise? If so, I can vouch for this.

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Hit send too soon...

Travel in your late 50s instead of your late 60s/early 70s, you'll
enjoy it more and your quality of life will be better. Makes sense.

I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years
later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might when
I am older but, OTOH, I actually worry that I might have started too
late at 40s. ;)

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There are individual times/experiences I might be sentimental about but I must remind myself that there were also many experiences at those
ages that I really, really am glad are far behind now.

Yes, but those experiences make you who you are now. I did some what-if
thinking a while ago, and thought about what it would have been like to
avoid painful moments in my life, but they built character and set a
path for my life. Avoiding the pain wouldn't have caused a better path,
and I wouldn't have the wisdom I'd gained from the experience - nor
would I have the experiences I'd enjoyed afterwards.

Agreed, but I also figure I'd not like to go back and re-experience them.
I feel like I have learned my lesson, at the time or since then. So even though there might be some things I would like to revisit, I would really rather leave the past in the past.

The person I responded to did mention a time they'd like to go back to.
If I had to choose one, I guess it would be ages 5-10. Problem with that
is that I assume I would have to also relive 12-40 and I would much rather not.

There are moments but most of life is crap that is not really worth
revisiting.

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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: nblade to Nightfox on Fri Jan 02 2026 14:40:00

...I remember seeing the BeOS software boxes in the stores and was tempted to try it out, I just never did.

I got BeOS when it first came out. I had read various reviews and they were quite positive. The price was good, so I gave it a go. Loved it! Seriously, that was one awesome OS. Its main strength was its multimedia abilities. I remember running three video files at the same time and there wasn't any sign of slow-down. This was 1995, so that was kind of a big deal. Outside of that, it had an excellent UI; very customizable.

It's unfortunate that it came out the same year as Win95. If it had premired a year earlier, it might of had a chance, but like Linux, it just couldn't stand up to the Microsoft juggernaut.
--- SBBSecho 3.31-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Overall I don't really have many problems with Windows (despite a lot of people complaining about Windows). I think the only thing that bugs me

I feel as though I've been having way more issues with bugs than I used to, with Windows.

Though the truly awful things are, e.g., how a Microsoft account is now mandatory in a variety of situations, the inclusion of a variety of genAI and questionable online features, and the increasing suspicion that Microsoft wants me as a product, not a customer, regardless of how much I paid for the OS.

So I've been considering Linux more.

I'm predisposed toward using open source software, but don't really mind paying for good non-free (as in speech) software.

I'm sick of non-free (as in beer) software sucking _intentionally_, though. It feels wrong to need laws as the only way to stop companies from behaving unethically.

Regardless, this does remind me that Paulie420 has done some interesting videos on a distro or two. I don't know which one I'd go with, but it's neat to see.

And I'm sure we have plenty of users here with opinions on it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Travel in your late 50s instead of your late 60s/early 70s, you'll
enjoy it more and your quality of life will be better. Makes sense.

I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might when I am older but, OTOH, I actually worry that I might have started too
late at 40s. ;)

Man, would love to be able to do this right now... Just cannot finacially afford to travel.

... Old computers make great boat anchors

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Clutch BBS * telnet://clutchbbs.com (21:1/199)

Hi Nightfox,
In a message to Nblade you wrote:

That's cool. I didn't know PC Tools made a desktop replacement for
Windows 3.1.. When I used Windows 3.1, there were one or two desktop enhancements I remember using - I don't remember which it was, but I remember something where one of the features was displaying the time
in the top border of any application, which I thought was useful
(Windows 3.1 didn't have a bottom taskbar to show the time).

I'm using norton desktop on this win 3.1 now. Back in the day I ran
one that had many more features and looked amazing. I can't rememebr
the name of it and I've spent far too much time looking. LOL

I had kept the paper registration code for it but around 2006 I lost
a lot of things to black mold from a rental house I was in.

... I love criticism just so long as it's unqualified praise.


* SeM. 2.26 * Dirty Ole' Town
--- SBBSecho 3.34-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)

BY: MIKE POWELL (21:4/134)

|11MP|09> |10I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years|07
|11MP|09> |10later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might|07
|11MP|09> |10when|07
First major trip was at age 43 to London. Visit London is my equivalent of Disney world.


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

MIKE POWELL wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might
when I am older but, OTOH, I actually worry that I might have started
too late at 40s. ;)

I was never much of a vacationer, am looking forward to travel when I
retire - and trying to make sure I can make the most of it.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Mortar M. wrote to nblade <=-

It's unfortunate that it came out the same year as Win95. If it had premired a year earlier, it might of had a chance, but like Linux, it
just couldn't stand up to the Microsoft juggernaut.

I don't think any desktop stood the chance, when Microsoft already had
their foot in the door with DOS - they strongarmed vendors into buying
a copy of DOS for every PC they sold, otherwise they couldn't get
Windows to sell.

I thought BeOS came out on dedicated hardware first -- they definitely
had some cool ideas, and in re-reading about it, sounds like the file
system was heads and shoulders above what MS and Apple did at the time.

I don't know if Haiku has the same FS or not.

I have a Haiku VM, it might be an intriguing "no-fuss" environment. I
spend a lot of time playing with eye-candy, trying out new browsers and
apps - it might be interesting using an environment with basic apps
built-in.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

niter3 wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

Man, would love to be able to do this right now... Just cannot
finacially afford to travel.

I've always wanted a VW Westfalia camper, love the efficiency of them.
They're pricey, though. Used larger campers with showers and bathrooms
end up being cheaper.

I'd love to go tour parts of the US I've not seen.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Tiny wrote to Nightfox <=-

I had kept the paper registration code for it but around 2006 I lost
a lot of things to black mold from a rental house I was in.

I copied all of my license keys into a OneNote page, I can tell how
much of a hoarder I am by the keys I still keep around.

Allaire Homesite, Photoshop 4, Blue Wave, Eudora Pro, Filemaker,Office
2003, Telix...

And, WHY did I keep Microsoft Vista license keys?




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: Adept to Nightfox on Sat Jan 03 2026 09:07 am

I feel as though I've been having way more issues with bugs than I used to, with Windows.

Though the truly awful things are, e.g., how a Microsoft account is now mandatory in a variety of situations, the inclusion of a variety of genAI and questionable online features, and the increasing suspicion that Microsoft wants me as a product, not a customer, regardless of how much I paid for the OS.

So I've been considering Linux more.

Yeah, in recent years, I've been hearing that Microsoft's main source of revenue isn't Windows anymore, but rather, online services such as Azure, Office 365, and such; thus, Windows may be taking a back seat and might have lower priority for Microsoft these days.

From a business perspective, that might have actually been a good decision for Microsoft, with a lot more people using mobile devices these days, which tend to be Android or iOS (Microsoft tried to get in the mobile game with their Zune, for instance, which flopped). But they may be leaving Windows users with a low-quality OS now. I've been wondering if there may be a tipping point which would prompt a lot of software companies to make Linux their primary focus instead of Windows. I think there are still a lot of desktop PC users who will need a good OS.

I've been seriously considering switching to Linux too. My current favorite distribution is Linux Mint.. I dual-boot my main PC with Windows & Linux Mint, and I've also been running Linux Mint exclusively on my 2nd PC for the last 10 years, which hosts my BBS and is also where I run a media server. For a while, I was running my BBS in a Windows VM on that PC, but a few years ago, I moved my BBS to Linux so I don't need to run a VM on that PC. Overall, I think it's working great. And I can't say I've had any significant issues with Linux Mint, including upgrading to new major versions of the OS.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mortar M. on Sat Jan 03 2026 09:05 am

I thought BeOS came out on dedicated hardware first -- they definitely had some cool ideas, and in re-reading about it, sounds like the file system was heads and shoulders above what MS and Apple did at the time.

BeOS did come out on dedicated hardware at first - They made their own PowerPC-based computer (the BeBox). I think it was only in the late 90s when they ported BeOS to Intel-compatible PCs, and by then, I think it was too late, as Microsoft had already captured the home PC market.

Nightfox

Wow, DESQview. Now that is something I haven't heard in a long time. It was interesting times when that stuff was out. I remember using a Windows 3.1 with a PC Tools desktop replacement that had features that were way ahead of it's time (Virtual Desktops), the ability to have folders on the desktop, hell the ability to have a folder that had a filter of files in a directory (so you could point it to say c:\files with a filter of *.txt and only get text files), and a bunch of other things included. I still say that desktop was better than what showed up when Win95 came out, and it was running on
top of Windows 3.1 go figure.

There were a few products out back in Win 3.x days that, from the opinions expressed in BBS Land in the past, were better than what MS came up for
with Win95. OT1H, if they had made Win95 look too much like one of those products, they probably would have been accused of copying them. OTOH,
that never stopped them with other things. ;)

DV was popular at that time (c1990 or 91) so that is why I gravitated
towards it. There were not many/any Windows BBS packages back then, at
least not in use in my area.
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It's still fun to visit places in small towns in the US, or see some wide-ope places that are less common in Europe, but I think a lot of that wouldn't eve strike most Americans as "travel".

AS an American, I can say that this is mostly how I travel now. Take the
roads less traveled, when possible, and see things that I would otherwise
miss.

Our country is huge and there are a lot of things to see.

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Some companies already give employees the option to work 4 10-hour days or 5 8-hour days. If it's going to be 4 10-hour days, I'd rather things just be left as it is and give people the option. But if it's 5 8-hour days, I wouldn't mind that for more work-life balance.

Me also. I was glad that people had the flexibility of 4-10's but I
didn't want to work that schedule. Going in at 6:45, I felt like I had
more time in the afternoons to do things at home working 5 days vs.
working 4 10-hour ones.

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Some companies already give employees the option to work 4 10-hour days or 5 8-hour days. If it's going to be 4 10-hour days, I'd rather
things just be left as it is and give people the option. But if it's 4 8-hour days, I wouldn't mind that for more work-life balance.

Would you mind the 20% pay cut? Also likely don't get
benefits/insurance with only 32 hours per week...

My guess would be that if a company went to a 32-hr work week, that'd be considered full time for them... although I can also see some underhanded companies considering all employees part-time in that scenario.

I agree, though, that most are not going to keep paying their employees a 40-hour wage/salary for only working 32 hours. TNSTAAFL.

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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MIKE POWELL on Sat Jan 03 2026 09:05:15

...am looking forward to travel when I retire and trying to make sure I can make the most of it.

Same here, but with the cost of everything shooting up, I don't think that's gonna happen. Where's Recall when you need'em.
--- SBBSecho 3.31-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: Nightfox to Adept on Sat Jan 03 2026 09:53:54

...with a lot more people using mobile devices these days, which tend to be Android or iOS (Microsoft tried to get in the mobile game with their Zune, for instance, which flopped).

Zune was a MS brand of portable media players, so is out of context here. A better comparison would be Windows Phone, which also flopped.
--- SBBSecho 3.31-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

I copied all of my license keys into a OneNote page, I can tell how
much of a hoarder I am by the keys I still keep around.

Allaire Homesite, Photoshop 4, Blue Wave, Eudora Pro, Filemaker,Office 2003, Telix...

Hey, speak for yourself; I still use a Eudora key.

Mind you, at some point I switched over to one I found on the Internet. But Eudora is still functional, and its mailboxes are in plain text, so much less a worry about things disappearing.

And, WHY did I keep Microsoft Vista license keys?

Why _wouldn't_ you hoard data when you can?

Though, realistically, probably best if it's in a list of outdated things you'd never consider using. But, hey, maybe, just maybe, there'll be a time when it's helpful.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: Mortar M. to Nightfox on Sat Jan 03 2026 10:08 pm

...with a lot more people using mobile devices these days, which tend to be
Android or iOS (Microsoft tried to get in the mobile game with their Zune,
for instance, which flopped).

Zune was a MS brand of portable media players, so is out of context here. A better comparison would be Windows Phone, which also flopped.

Yeah, I was trying to think of what that Microsoft phone was; I wasn't sure if it was Windows Phone or if Zune also applied to their line of phones.

Nightfox

Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Mind you, at some point I switched over to one I found on the Internet. But Eudora is still functional, and its mailboxes are in plain text, so much less a worry about things disappearing.

You're tempting me to go back to Eudora on the BBS, I don't need HTML
email and prefer mbox formatted email. Last time I tried, there was an
issue with SMTP ports, I think. I'll need to try again.

Though, realistically, probably best if it's in a list of outdated
things you'd never consider using. But, hey, maybe, just maybe,
there'll be a time when it's helpful.

Which is why I still keep a parallel port cable, in case I'm teleported
back in time to 1990. :)



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: Nightfox to Mortar M. on Sun Jan 04 2026 09:44 am

Yeah, I was trying to think of what that Microsoft phone was; I wasn't sure if it was Windows Phone or if Zune also applied to their line of phones.

There's an alternate universe where Bill Gates' biggest triumph was the release of the zPhone.

I liked the UI of the Windows phone, CE felt too much like they wanted the Windows desktop OS on everything, but WP felt optimized for phones. I was surprised Microsoft didn't make WP work better in Microsoft corporate environments (or more accurately, break performance with every other platform) to make WP the choice for corporate clients.
--- SBBSecho 3.33-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Jan 04 2026 10:40 am

I liked the UI of the Windows phone, CE felt too much like they wanted the Windows desktop OS on everything, but WP felt optimized for phones. I was surprised Microsoft didn't make WP work better in Microsoft corporate environments (or more accurately, break performance with every other platform) to make WP the choice for corporate clients.

Even though a lot of companies traditionally seem to use Microsoft stuff (especially large companies), I've noticed some companies seem to prefer Apple stuff. I briefly worked on a contract with eBay for their Portland, OR location -It was remote at the time (due to COVID), but they said most people working there were using Mac laptops (they gave us a choice to use a Windows or Mac laptop). I chose a Windows laptop because that's what I'm used to, but when it came to asking others for help with tasks, most people were giving me Mac-based solutions..

In 2010, I worked for another company where most of the devs there used Macs as well. To me it seemed odd, since most of my software developer jobs have been at places where most people used Windows machines, but I've heard Macs are popular for dev work as well. Maybe Windows machines are mainly popular for places that develop Windows software and use Visual Studio & such, and companies that just tend to choose Microsoft products by default.

Nightfox

Hello Nightfox!

04 Jan 26 09:44, you wrote to Mortar M.:

Zune was a MS brand of portable media players, so is out of
context here. A better comparison would be Windows Phone, which
also flopped.

Yeah, I was trying to think of what that Microsoft phone was; I wasn't sure if it was Windows Phone or if Zune also applied to their line of phones.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune

Zune was a brand of digital media products and services that was marketed by Microsoft from November 2006 until it was discontinued
in June 2012. Zune consisted of a line of portable media players, a music subscription service known as Zune Music Pass plus Zune
Marketplace for music, TV and movies, streaming services for the Xbox 360 game console, and the Zune software media player for
Windows PC's which also acted as desktop sync software for Windows Phone.




Vorlon


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I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might whe I am older but, OTOH, I actually worry that I might have started too late at 40s. ;)

Man, would love to be able to do this right now... Just cannot finacially afford to travel.

I know what you mean. I was hoping to go somewhere in 2025 but needing to have a tree taken down and multiple repairs to the HVAC ate all of my
vacation fund for the year. ;)

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First major trip was at age 43 to London. Visit London is my equivalent of Disney world.

My equivalent to Disney World was visiting the Indianapolis Motor Speedway
to watch a week of practice and qualifying. I did that for a few years in
the early 2000s before they screwed up the qualifying format.

The museum was the pinacle of the visit, though. They have remodeled so I need to plan a visit in the near future.

Since then I did find a couple of other Disney Worlds, and they are also
in Indiana -- The Auburn Museum and the Studebaker Museum. ;)
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I started taking long vacations and traveling in my mid-40s. 10 years later, I am semi-retired. I think I do enjoy them more than I might when I am older but, OTOH, I actually worry that I might have started too late at 40s. ;)

I was never much of a vacationer, am looking forward to travel when I
retire - and trying to make sure I can make the most of it.

I never really was, either, until I decided to take my first real road
trip in 2015. I was leaving one job and starting another, so I decided to give myself some time in between. Enjoyed it and have been taking trips,
large and small, since. The most recent long one was in 2023 when I
followed US 66 all the way to Los Angeles. Then I followed US 60 back.
Saw a whole lot of things I had not before.

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I thought BeOS came out on dedicated hardware first -- they definitely
had some cool ideas, and in re-reading about it, sounds like the file
system was heads and shoulders above what MS and Apple did at the time.

IIRC you are correct. There was a machine called the BeBox. Later,
probably about the time that Be went bye-bye, there was a version released publicly that you could install on many (at least Intel) machines. I
played around with it some. It was interesting but, since it was already moving towards unsupported by then it was difficult to find much you could
do with it.

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That's another question I've had - If there's a move to 4-day work week
would that also mean benefits would change? Maybe they'd change it so
that 32 hours per week is considered enough to get benefits.

I thought the idea was 4 10-hour days, making it the same weekly hourly amoun

I thought it was also but after re-reading the OP, I think that they were implying a < 40 hr work week.
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MIKE POWELL wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Some companies already give employees the option to work 4 10-hour days or 5 8-hour days. If it's going to be 4 10-hour days, I'd rather things just be left as it is and give people the option. But if it's 4 8-hour days, I wouldn't mind that for more work-life balance.

Would you mind the 20% pay cut? Also likely don't get
benefits/insurance with only 32 hours per week...

My guess would be that if a company went to a 32-hr work week, that'd
be considered full time for them... although I can also see some underhanded companies considering all employees part-time in that scenario.

Absolutely there are companies that do that. People take those jobs
because their insurance is handled by a spouse's job/insurance, and
similar arrangements. It's a great deal for companies, but generally a scumbag move.

I agree, though, that most are not going to keep paying their employees
a 40-hour wage/salary for only working 32 hours. TNSTAAFL.

You got that right!



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: MIKE POWELL to UTOPIAN GALT on Sun Jan 04 2026 09:17 am

Since then I did find a couple of other Disney Worlds, and they are also in Indiana -- The Auburn Museum and the Studebaker Museum. ;)

There's a great car museum in Blackhawk, CA. They have a collection of 1930s cars, I remember a Mercedes 540k, a Hispano with beech planking and brass rivets, a Duesenberg, then moving up in time, 1950s Porsche racing cars, a dozen Aston Martin racing cars, a 1960s JaG, a Porsche 917, and more... WHen I realized that all of the Aston Martins were donated from a personal collection.
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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: MIKE POWELL to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Jan 04 2026 09:50 am

I thought it was also but after re-reading the OP, I think that they were implying a < 40 hr work week.

Too Much Coffee Man had a comic where he figured out the solution to the problems facing us.

Half of the people are overworked, overstressed and suffering. Half are underemployes or unemployed.

Have everyone work half-time, problem solved!
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Re: Screaming Into The Void
By: Vorlon to Nightfox on Mon Jan 05 2026 09:47 am

Zune was a MS brand of portable media players, so is out of context
here. A better comparison would be Windows Phone, which also flopped.

Yeah, I was trying to think of what that Microsoft phone was; I wasn't
sure if it was Windows Phone or if Zune also applied to their line of
phones.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune

Zune was a brand of digital media products and services that was marketed

Yes, I remember Zune..

Nightfox

Nightfox wrote to nblade <=-

I never saw the Be boxes in stores; I remember happening upon an
article in my high school library that mentioned BeOS and the BeBox (I don't remember how I found that in the library now), and I later
learned they ported BeOS to Intel-compatible PCs, and I decided to buy
a copy to try on one of my PCs.

At least I seem to remember it that way, I could be mistaken. Of course that
is around the same time, I would buy Red Hat Linux for the phyical media
so I wouldn't have to DL it and burn it to CD (or was it DVD by then??)



... Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: nblade to Nightfox on Mon Jan 05 2026 01:31 pm

At least I seem to remember it that way, I could be mistaken. Of course that is around the same time, I would buy Red Hat Linux for the phyical media so I wouldn't have to DL it and burn it to CD (or was it DVD by then??)

I did that too. In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical disc (CD-R and DVD-R) and mail it to you for only the cost of the media, so you wouldn't have to download it yourself.

Nightfox

There's a great car museum in Blackhawk, CA. They have a collection of 1930s cars, I remember a Mercedes 540k, a Hispano with beech planking and brass rivets, a Duesenberg, then moving up in time, 1950s Porsche racing cars, a dozen Aston Martin racing cars, a 1960s JaG, a Porsche 917, and more... WHen

Nice, I will have to keep that one in mind for future trips!

dozen Aston Martin racing cars, a 1960s JaG, a Porsche 917, and more... WHen realized that all of the Aston Martins were donated from a personal collectio

When you realized that, what? Looks like maybe you didn't complete a
thought there? ;)

Mike
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I liked the UI of the Windows phone, CE felt too much like they wanted the Windows desktop OS on everything, but WP felt optimized for phones. I was surprised Microsoft didn't make WP work better in Microsoft corporate environments (or more accurately, break performance with every other platform to make WP the choice for corporate clients.

I had a coworker who had a Windows phone. He liked it. I was actually
not aware of when they discontinued them but from this conversation I
guess they have.

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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: Nightfox to nblade on Mon Jan 05 2026 14:20:46

In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical disc

I had one of those. It came with Slackware Linux. First distro I ever used. This around '93, I believe. There was no GUI, no real documentation so after fumbling about for...oh, a day, I scraped it. I guess I just wasn't ready for it yet.
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Nightfox wrote to nblade <=-

I did that too. In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical
disc (CD-R and DVD-R) and mail it to you for only the cost of the
media, so you wouldn't have to download it yourself.

Wow, I remember those guys. Never got media from them but I do remember
the Ads for them.

... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
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Mortar M. wrote to Nightfox <=-

I had one of those. It came with Slackware Linux. First distro I ever used. This around '93, I believe. There was no GUI, no real documentation so after fumbling about for...oh, a day, I scraped it. I guess I just wasn't ready for it yet. --- SBBSecho 3.34-Linux

Slackware Linux, that was the first one I ever tried as well. Of course I had download the floppy images. Yes floppy drive images. I had something like 30 or so floppies, that I used to install it. At that point, yes it was more like something you experiment with. Not something you use. I don't think I really started using Linux until one of the Red Hat distro.



... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
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Hello Nightfox!

05 Jan 26 14:20, you wrote to nblade:

I did that too. In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical
disc (CD-R and DVD-R) and mail it to you for only the cost of the
media, so you wouldn't have to download it yourself.

There was also one name Infomagic that came with 6 CDs and had many distros. I remeber I subscribed to them and every couple of months I would receive a letter/box with those CDs. I still have them at my parent's house.

Nightfox
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s2r


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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: Nightfox to nblade on Mon Jan 05 2026 14:20:46

Hi, Nightfox.

I did that too. In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical disc (CD-R and DVD-R) and mail it to you for only the cost of the media, so you wouldn't have to download it yourself.

Walnut Creek? Arent't they the guys who hosted cdrom.com?

Cheers for the nostalgia hit :)

BobW
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Re: Re: Screaming Into The Vo
By: Bob Worm to Nightfox on Tue Jan 06 2026 04:27 pm

Walnut Creek? Arent't they the guys who hosted cdrom.com?

Yes, I believe so. Now that I think about it, I believe that was the site I used when looking at their stuff.

Nightfox

I did that too. In the mid-late 90s, there was a company based in California called Walnut Creek that would burn Linux ISOs to optical disc (CD-R and DVD-R) and mail it to you for only the cost of the
media, so you wouldn't have to download it yourself.

Wow, I remember those guys. Never got media from them but I do remember
the Ads for them.

I got on their subscription list a little late in the game. I still have
three or four of their Simtel CDs around here somewhere.

Mike
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MIKE POWELL wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

dozen Aston Martin racing cars, a 1960s JaG, a Porsche 917, and more... WHen realized that all of the Aston Martins were donated from a personal

ollectio

When you realized that, what? Looks like maybe you didn't complete a thought there? ;)

All of the Aston Martins belonged to a private collector. Had to be
millions of dollars worth of cars.



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MIKE POWELL wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I had a coworker who had a Windows phone. He liked it. I was actually not aware of when they discontinued them but from this conversation I guess they have.

Yeah, the story of Steven Elop. He has quite a career that I can't
fully document here. He was brought into Macromedia when his buddy was
made CEO, promoted to CEO right before they were bought by Adobe,
worked as a CEO at at least one company for a year and one day to vest
his stocks, then bailed, was promoted at Microsoft, then appointed CEO
of Nokia, where he killed off SymbianOS in favor of Windows Phone and
killed the company, to then be acquired *by* Microsoft. Some call him a
trojan horse.

He landed OK, after killing the company and selling to Microsoft, he
received a 18.8 million euro bonus - and was hied by Microsoft!



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nblade wrote to Nightfox <=-

Wow, I remember those guys. Never got media from them but I do remember the Ads for them.

Way Back When, on a 768k/128k DSL line, it was easier buying Linux isos
from Walnut Creek than downloading them.



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