Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name and address/port if you're running one!

I'd like to include them on the enig page



--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Hi NuSkooler,

Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig
public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name
and address/port if you're running one!

I wanted to give enigma on M68K linux, but there was to many '-m32'
statements in node.js that it just got to anoying to go further! 80(



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

vorlon wrote (2023-01-11):

Hi NuSkooler,

Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig
public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name
and address/port if you're running one!

I wanted to give enigma on M68K linux, but there was to many '-m32' statements in node.js that it just got to anoying to go further! 80(

Would M68K fast performant enough to run a nodejs program?

Just out of curiosity, can you explain the '-m32' problem? I thought it is a gcc parameter for compiling 32-bit on 64-bit systems (like old BBS software that would break on 64-bit). Is it used in nodejs or do you have to add it? Do you cross-compile?

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Hi Oli,

I wanted to give enigma on M68K linux, but there was to many
'-m32' statements in node.js that it just got to anoying to go
further! 80(

Would M68K fast performant enough to run a nodejs program?

Dunno, that was one of the reasons to try... @-)

Just out of curiosity, can you explain the '-m32' problem? I thought
it is a gcc parameter for compiling 32-bit on 64-bit systems (like old
BBS software that would break on 64-bit). Is it used in nodejs or do
you have to add it? Do you cross-compile?

gcc (Debian 12.2.0-12) 12.2.0 was saying "Unknown option" or to that
effect. It was last year when I tyied, and after so many of them showing
up through the compiling process I gave up. (Ie: I'd remove that option
and start again, only for another one to show up.)

This was done with no cross-compile, directly on the machine.





\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

vorlon wrote (2023-01-13):

Would M68K fast performant enough to run a nodejs program?

Dunno, that was one of the reasons to try... @-)

:)

Just out of curiosity, can you explain the '-m32' problem? I thought
it is a gcc parameter for compiling 32-bit on 64-bit systems (like old
BBS software that would break on 64-bit). Is it used in nodejs or do
you have to add it? Do you cross-compile?

gcc (Debian 12.2.0-12) 12.2.0 was saying "Unknown option" or to that effect. It was last year when I tyied, and after so many of them showing
up through the compiling process I gave up. (Ie: I'd remove that option
and start again, only for another one to show up.)

This was done with no cross-compile, directly on the machine.

I looked it up again and -m32 is mainly an option for amd64 and tells gcc to compile for x86 (32bit / i386 / i686). It's not valid for m68k (or arm or most other machines).

Today I partially franken-upgraded my old unsupported 32-bit Ubuntu 19.10 to Debian 11 (Bullseye). I was stuck on this version, because they dropped 32-bit support with 20.04 LTS and I couldn't upgrade anymore.

My original plan was to reinstall everything some day, but I read the debian-m68k mailing list archive today and looked into m68k emulation. I learned that Linux and qemu recently introduced a "virt" m68k machine, which does not emulate any real hardware, but provides virtio devices. ( https://www.phoronix.com/news/Virtual-m68k-Linux-5.19 )

As I was eager to test it, I had to upgrade the kernel and qemu ASAP. Now I'm running Linux a 6.0 64-bit kernel with a 32-bit userland and qemu 7.2. I have not tried qemu-m86k virt yet, but did a first test with qemu-user (qemu-m68k-static). I downloaded busybox-static from Debian's m68k repository and was able to run the busybox m68k binary on x86 successfully (it magically runs like any other program). It should be possible to install a m68k userland in a chroot environment and try to install nodejs and enigma there.

The performance of the emulated m68k binaries seems to be 4 to 6 times slower than native x86, which is not that bad and should be fast enough for BBSing. It is also a simple setup for compiling and testing portability. Not as much fun as running everything on real retro hardware (e.g. Amiga) though.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Twas Saturday, January 14th when vorlon said...

This was done with no cross-compile, directly on the machine.

This is likely the culprit for at least the -m32 issue; that compiler wouldn't have the flag supported. You can try stripping it out of the module(s) make files.

Good luck!


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

NuSkooler wrote (2023-01-13):

Twas Saturday, January 14th when vorlon said...

This was done with no cross-compile, directly on the machine.

This is likely the culprit for at least the -m32 issue; that compiler wouldn't have the flag supported. You can try stripping it out of the module(s) make files.

Are these external dependencies? Why are there -m32 parameters in the make files in the first place? Is this a problem of packaging or is it a nodejs m68k bug?

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On Saturday, January 14th Oli said...

Are these external dependencies? Why are there -m32 parameters in the make files in the first place? Is this a problem of packaging or is it a nodejs m68k bug?

I haven't looked, but node-sqlite uses C-bindings for example, so a good place to start.


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Hi Oli,

I looked it up again and -m32 is mainly an option for amd64 and tells
gcc to compile for x86 (32bit / i386 / i686). It's not valid for m68k
(or arm or most other machines).

Yeah, I know... node.js was nevr aimed other archs...

The performance of the emulated m68k binaries seems to be 4 to 6 times slower than native x86, which is not that bad and should be fast
enough for BBSing. It is also a simple setup for compiling and testing portability. Not as much fun as running everything on real retro
hardware (e.g. Amiga) though.

On a Xeon 3.3ghz machine, qemu-m68k (What I use to test first, before
moving to real hardware) gives me a 1.3Ghz machine...



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi NuSkooler,

This was done with no cross-compile, directly on the machine.

This is likely the culprit for at least the -m32 issue; that compiler wouldn't have the flag supported. You can try stripping it out of the module(s) make files.

Yeah it dosn't support that flag. I went through so many files and
compiles that I ended giving up. Not being a programmer, and just doing
this to see if it would work, quickly became to tedious... #-(



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Oli,

Are these external dependencies? Why are there -m32 parameters in the
make files in the first place? Is this a problem of packaging or is it
a nodejs m68k bug?

I think you'll find it just the way node.js is put together. Even though
the platform list contains a range of Architectures, the list mainly
contains intel based cpu's with some arm/ppc.

https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/main/BUILDING.md#platform-list

There is also this statement: "For production applications, run Node.js on supported platforms only."



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

vorlon wrote (2023-01-15):

Hi Oli,

Are these external dependencies? Why are there -m32 parameters in the
make files in the first place? Is this a problem of packaging or is it
a nodejs m68k bug?

I think you'll find it just the way node.js is put together. Even though the platform list contains a range of Architectures, the list mainly contains intel based cpu's with some arm/ppc.

https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/main/BUILDING.md#platform-list

There is also this statement: "For production applications, run Node.js on supported platforms only."

Debian has the nodejs package only for

amd64, i386
arm64, armel, armhf
mips64el, mipsel
ppc64, ppc64el
riscv64
s390x

I assumed nodejs is C++ software that would compile on any Linux arch, but I guess the V8 Javascript engine does some low-level stuff that needs be ported to every CPU architecture. The V8 Website mentions: x86, Arm, MIPS, PPC64, s390, RISC-V and Loong64. Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

Maybe it's somehow possible to get it running, but I haven't found a package in Linux distros or NetBSD old or non-mainstream CPUs. No old Mac PowerPC, m68k, Arm or MIPS big-endian.

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Oli wrote (2023-01-15):

I assumed nodejs is C++ software that would compile on any Linux arch,
but I guess the V8 Javascript engine does some low-level stuff that needs be ported to every CPU architecture. The V8 Website mentions: x86, Arm, MIPS, PPC64, s390, RISC-V and Loong64. Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

Maybe it's somehow possible to get it running, but I haven't found a package in Linux distros or NetBSD old or non-mainstream CPUs. No old Mac PowerPC, m68k, Arm or MIPS big-endian.

There is quite some arch-specific code in V8:

https://github.com/v8/v8/tree/main/src/compiler/backend

Good to know that nodejs / V8 is a no-go for older machines.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Oli to vorlon on Sun Jan 15 2023 02:29 pm

I assumed nodejs is C++ software that would compile on any Linux arch, but I guess the V8 Javascript engine does some low-level stuff that needs be ported to every CPU architecture. The V8 Website mentions: x86, Arm, MIPS, PPC64, s390, RISC-V and Loong64. Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #117:
Synchronet v1b r0 (for MS-DOS) was released on September 25, 1992
Norco, CA WX: 51.2°F, 95.0% humidity, 0 mph E wind, 1.16 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Hello Digital!

15 Jan 23 12:25, you wrote to Oli:

Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in either mode.


Vorlon


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220409
* Origin: Dragon's Lair BBS, Telnet: dragon.vk3heg.net (21:1/195)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Vorlon to Digital Man on Mon Jan 16 2023 10:57 am

Hello Digital!

15 Jan 23 12:25, you wrote to Oli:

Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in either mode.

Yeah, MIPS processors are like that too, but while in my experience most ARM systems run little-endian, most MIPS systems run big-endian.
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #1:
Karl: I've killed Doyle with a lawn mower blade. Yes, I'm right sure of it. Norco, CA WX: 44.5°F, 100.0% humidity, 0 mph NNE wind, 0.53 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Vorlon wrote (2023-01-16):

Hello Digital!

15 Jan 23 12:25, you wrote to Oli:

Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

All three architectures are big-endian AND little-endian.

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in either mode.

ARM is 99,9% little-endian on desktop, server and mobile. Notable exception is NetBSD 10 (beta) which has the big-endian ports aarch64eb and earm*eb -- because they can. I'm running a Raspberry Pi in big-endian mode, maybe I'll try to compile nodejs (I'm quite confident the build fails).

MIPS is used both ways. I'm not sure if most CPUs work in both modes. AFAIK it depends on the board / firmware. Loongson MIPS-based CPUs are little-endian only.

PowerPC used to be used in big-endian mode (Power Mac G5 was big-endian only), but IBM and the big distros have pushed it to little-endian. Most distros dropped PPC and PPC64 big-endian. Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Alpine only offer big-endian (>= POWER8). I guess no Google Chrome/Chromium and no nodejs for big-endian PPC/PPC64 was a huge incentive to switch to PPC64le. Also Firefox added nodejs as a hard build dependency and was not available anymore.

Summary: AFAIK nodejs does not support ARM big-endian. MIPS 32-bit has been removed; no idea if MIPS64 BE is working. No support for PPC 32-bit and older PPC64(be) machines. There are some patches though:

https://nitter.se/jhamby/status/1495188071632965637 https://jakehamby.com/2021/12/27/retrocomputing-powerpc-part-1/

( He also mentioned Enigma½ in a Tweet:
https://nitter.se/jhamby/status/1529157067008667648#m )


Unfortunately nodejs will most likely never run on m68k.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Oli to Vorlon on Mon Jan 16 2023 11:20 pm

Vorlon wrote (2023-01-16):

Hello Digital!

15 Jan 23 12:25, you wrote to Oli:

Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

All three architectures are big-endian AND little-endian.

I've written code for a lot of PPC-based systems, not one has ever been little-endian. I do see they now exist, but appear to be pretty rare.

Similarly, all the MIPS-based systems I've developed for have been big-endian. --
digital man (rob)

Breaking Bad quote #17:
Your breath could knock the buzzard off a shit wagon. - Hank Schrader
Norco, CA WX: 54.7°F, 73.0% humidity, 0 mph ENE wind, 0.52 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

midnight coffee:
https://midnightcoffee.org
ssh://ssh.midnightcoffee.org:31323 (new/new to apply)



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 14.21.2)
* Origin: midnight coffee (21:1/162)

Twas Tuesday, January 17th when spaceman said...

midnight coffee: https://midnightcoffee.org ssh://ssh.midnightcoffee.org:31323 (new/new to apply)

Sweet, thank you!


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Hi Oli,

Unfortunately nodejs will most likely never run on m68k.

It was just a excuse to see if it would... If I could program, then it
would have been something to do... Alas, I'm not...



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hello Digital Man!

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in
either mode.

Yeah, MIPS processors are like that too, but while in my experience
most ARM systems run little-endian, most MIPS systems run big-endian.

And it catches many people out... #-0)

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Spaceman,

midnight coffee:
https://midnightcoffee.org
ssh://ssh.midnightcoffee.org:31323 (new/new to apply)

I know your trying to get the look of a old school CRT, but it's very
hard to read the text on the site.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On Friday, January 20th vorlon muttered...

Hi Spaceman,

midnight coffee: > https://midnightcoffee.org >

I know your trying to get the look of a old school CRT, but it's very

Try going fullscreen, or even just fullscreen then exit -- a little larger size and it looks great to me


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Digital wrote (2023-01-16):

Not much support for legacy or big-endian platforms.

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

All three architectures are big-endian AND little-endian.

I've written code for a lot of PPC-based systems, not one has ever been little-endian. I do see they now exist, but appear to be pretty rare.

The little-endian implementations were not very successful ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC#Endian_modes

But big-endian for desktop and server has pretty much no future. IBM killed it.

Similarly, all the MIPS-based systems I've developed for have been big-endian.

SGI was big-endian
Cobalt Qube/RaQ MIPS servers were little-endian
Playstation 1 and 2: little
Nintendo 64: big (IIRC)

Some routers and embedded hardware are little-, some big-endian.

MIPS is the true bi-endian architecture ;)

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 15 Jan 2023 at 12:25p, Digital Man pondered and said...

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

Believe it or not, LE PPC exists!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 16 Jan 2023 at 10:57a, Vorlon pondered and said...

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in either mode.

In fact, many of them can select at right-time, by setting
a bit in a control register. It can even vary based on the
target of a branch.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 16 Jan 2023 at 02:26p, Digital Man pondered and said...

I've written code for a lot of PPC-based systems, not one has ever been little-endian. I do see they now exist, but appear to be pretty rare.

IBM did it at the request for a few big customers who were
looking to hedge against Intel dominance by diversifying away
from x86. At least one of those customers, which has an
extremely large code base (measured in BLOC) tried BE PPC and
found there were too many hidden endian assumptions in their
code; et voila, LE PPC was the result. In other words, software
compatibility was the driving factor for LE PPC64.

Then AMD came out with the Zen microarch series and all of a
sudden there was diversity in the x86 space and Intel no longer
had them over a barrel. The PPC effort was largely dropped.

Then Altera came out with the N1 and the power-efficiency gains
for an organization with O(10^7) CPUs in production were too
good to pass up. Aarch64 isn't a half-bad instruction set, at
that.

This is probably all good since Intel seems to be on the ropes.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 19 Jan 2023 at 12:03p, vorlon pondered and said...

Hello Digital Man!

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in either mode.

Yeah, MIPS processors are like that too, but while in my experience most ARM systems run little-endian, most MIPS systems run big-endian.

And it catches many people out... #-0)

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

I don't see why it wouldn't, provided you can find a recent
enough OS and toolchain. The problem with V8 is that it's
jitting to native object code; so unless you've got a backend
for that, it won't run on your platform.

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a fallback to either a
portable p-code or just straight-up interpreter.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 20 Jan 2023 at 04:39a, tenser pondered and said...

In fact, many of them can select at right-time, by setting

^^^^^^^^^^ run-time. Sigh.

a bit in a control register. It can even vary based on the
target of a branch.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hei Vorlon,

vorlon wrote (2023-01-19):

Unfortunately nodejs will most likely never run on m68k.

It was just a excuse to see if it would... If I could program, then it would have been something to do... Alas, I'm not...

I'm glad you did. I was not aware that nodejs / V8 is so damn picky about the CPU. I thought it would compile on any Linux / BSD. But unfortunately that is the way the web devs / companies are heading for quite some time. Creating libraries and web sites / apps on monstrous JavaScript frameworks. Wasting so much resources that you need very performant JS engines and faster computers. They don't see why you want to run nodejs on legacy devices, especially not on very very old retro computers like an Amiga ;).

Is there a portable V8-less and compatible alternative to nodejs?

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 19 Jan 2023 at 04:56p, Oli pondered and said...

Unfortunately nodejs will most likely never run on m68k.

It was just a excuse to see if it would... If I could program, then it would have been something to do... Alas, I'm not...

I'm glad you did. I was not aware that nodejs / V8 is so damn picky
about the CPU. I thought it would compile on any Linux / BSD. But unfortunately that is the way the web devs / companies are heading for quite some time. Creating libraries and web sites / apps on monstrous JavaScript frameworks. Wasting so much resources that you need very performant JS engines and faster computers. They don't see why you want
to run nodejs on legacy devices, especially not on very very old retro computers like an Amiga ;).

It's probably worthwhile understanding _why_ this is as it is.
In particular, v8 implements a JIT that compiles JavaScript to
native machine code; in that sense, yeah, you need a supported
CPU architecture.

I don't think this precludes someone sufficiently motivated
from implementing it for 68k. It probably won't perform _well_
(at least, not on anything prior to ColdFire or an overclocked
68060 if you can find one), but it will probably _work_.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

tenser wrote (2023-01-20):

The problem with V8 is that it's
jitting to native object code; so unless you've got a backend
for that, it won't run on your platform.

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a fallback to either a
portable p-code or just straight-up interpreter.

Java had the same problem until they added Zero (-assembler) JVM and the Shark JIT based on LLVM in 2009/2010. Unfortunately (and of course) Shark was removed in 2017.

Go (go, the one written in Go) also does not support many old CPUs, but there is also gccgo and gollvm.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: vorlon to Digital Man on Thu Jan 19 2023 12:03 pm

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

The chance of that might increase if there is already a Spider Monkey (Javascript Environment) available on M68K?



...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

deon wrote (2023-01-20):

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: vorlon to Digital Man on Thu Jan 19 2023 12:03 pm

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

The chance of that might increase if there is already a Spider Monkey (Javascript Environment) available on M68K?

Which SpiderMonkey version is required? Wiki says 1.8.5 for 3.16 IIRC. Older versions are in Debian, newer versions don't build on m68k AFAIK.

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 2023-01-10 06:18 NuSkooler said...

Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name and address/port if you're running one!

If I'm not there already, please add me. :)
My signature below should contain all information.

--
Best regards
//beardy
[IRC] beardy [WEB] beardy.se [GPH] gopher://bbs.beardy.se:8070/1
[FSX] 21:3/158 [TQW] 1337:1/115
[BBS] bbs.beardy.se (ssh/wss/telnet) https://beardy.se/bodax-bbs
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 14.19.1)
* Origin: BodaX BBS ~ bbs.beardy.se:23 / SSH port 22 (21:3/158)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Oli to deon on Fri Jan 20 2023 04:20 pm

Which SpiderMonkey version is required? Wiki says 1.8.5 for 3.16 IIRC. Older versions are in Debian, newer versions don't build on m68k AFAIK.

I think 1.8.5 IIRC.


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

deon wrote (2023-01-21):

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Oli to deon on Fri Jan 20 2023 04:20 pm

Which SpiderMonkey version is required? Wiki says 1.8.5 for 3.16
IIRC. Older versions are in Debian, newer versions don't build on
m68k AFAIK.

I think 1.8.5 IIRC.

That is a really old version.

I was convinced that there is an older libmozjs version for m68k in Debian, but now I'm not finding any. Newer SpiderMonkey versions have Rust as a build dependency, which is also not available in Debian as a binary package (LLVM has a m68k backend though).

Maybe JavaScript is jut not meant to run on old platforms ;).
(I'm sure on day there will some nodejs compatible runtime, that also would work on m68k. Bun seems promising).

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in
either mode.

In fact, many of them can select at right-time, by setting
a bit in a control register. It can even vary based on the
target of a branch.

That's what I read, but it didn't say what model/version...



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On 19 Jan 2023 at 12:03p, vorlon pondered and said...

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

I don't see why it wouldn't, provided you can find a recent
enough OS and toolchain. The problem with V8 is that it's
jitting to native object code; so unless you've got a backend
for that, it won't run on your platform

I'm running the following, and as others have now posted java/javascript
is the limiting factor now.

Linux m68k 6.1.0-1-m68k #1 Debian 6.1.4-1 (2023-01-07) m68k GNU/Linux
"Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid"



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Oli,

I'm glad you did. I was not aware that nodejs / V8 is so damn picky
about the CPU. I thought it would compile on any Linux / BSD. But unfortunately that is the way the web devs / companies are heading for

Programmers have gotten sloppy, and lazy with all the new machines having
Ghz cpu's and GB's of ram.

They don't see why you want to run nodejs on legacy devices, especially
not on very very old retro computers like an Amiga ;).

My Amiga 2000 back in the day was my first "big" computer after the C64.
I now have four Amiga's (A3000, A4000, A1200, A600) with the A3000 being
my fav, and the only one that can run linux right now.

For doing every day work though I use a Intel I5 PC!



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Deon,

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

The chance of that might increase if there is already a Spider Monkey (Javascript Environment) available on M68K?

That is the limiting factor. I can't find it now, but remember a post on
one of the mailing list's that java(something) won't compile/work on M68K linux.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: vorlon to Digital Man on Thu Jan 19 2023 12:03 pm

Hello Digital Man!

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in
either mode.

Yeah, MIPS processors are like that too, but while in my experience
most ARM systems run little-endian, most MIPS systems run big-endian.

And it catches many people out... #-0)

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

Certainly not as-is (we don't fully support any big endian targets today). Is there a modern M68K system available (to buy) that'll run a modern linux?
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #94:
Synchronet v3.16c was released in August of 2015 (5 years after v3.15b)
Norco, CA WX: 63.5°F, 28.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: tenser to Digital Man on Fri Jan 20 2023 04:38 am

All PPC, most MIPS and some ARM systems are big-endian.

Believe it or not, LE PPC exists!

So I hear! :-)
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #74:
A modern-day warrior mean, mean stride, today's Tom Sawyer, mean, mean pride Norco, CA WX: 63.5°F, 28.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: Oli to deon on Fri Jan 20 2023 04:20 pm

The chance of that might increase if there is already a Spider Monkey (Javascript Environment) available on M68K?

Which SpiderMonkey version is required? Wiki says 1.8.5 for 3.16 IIRC. Older versions are in Debian, newer versions don't build on m68k AFAIK.

Synchronet's still using libmozjs (SpiderMonkey) v1.8.5.
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #70:
He's got a problem with his power, with weapons on patrol .. New World Man Norco, CA WX: 63.5°F, 28.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

vorlon wrote (2023-01-22):

I've read that some or all ARM chips can be switched to work in
either mode.

In fact, many of them can select at right-time, by setting
a bit in a control register. It can even vary based on the
target of a branch.

That's what I read, but it didn't say what model/version...

I don't know know about the very old ones, but AFAIK it's supported since ARMv4 (1993) in the CPU. This doesn't mean that every board and bootloader does support it.

NetBSD 10 is available for Raspberry Pi 1/2/3/4 in big-endian. I have booted it on a Pi 1 and 2 without any problems.

Emu68 (the one for the PiStorm) is using the big-endian mode for it's m68k emulation.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 22 Jan 2023 at 10:32a, vorlon pondered and said...

In fact, many of them can select at right-time, by setting
a bit in a control register. It can even vary based on the
target of a branch.

That's what I read, but it didn't say what model/version...

It's an architectural feature. It's been around for
quite a while. My ancient copy of the architecture
reference manual from 2000 talks about it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 22 Jan 2023 at 10:35a, vorlon pondered and said...

On 19 Jan 2023 at 12:03p, vorlon pondered and said...

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

I don't see why it wouldn't, provided you can find a recent
enough OS and toolchain. The problem with V8 is that it's
jitting to native object code; so unless you've got a backend
for that, it won't run on your platform

I'm running the following, and as others have now posted java/javascript is the limiting factor now.

Linux m68k 6.1.0-1-m68k #1 Debian 6.1.4-1 (2023-01-07) m68k GNU/Linux "Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid"

That's a pretty recent Linux, all right. I don't see why
the C++ bits wouldn't compile, but Digital Man would obviously
know a lot more than me about this.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 21 Jan 2023 at 04:47p, Digital Man pondered and said...

Believe it or not, LE PPC exists!

So I hear! :-)

Ha! Yeah, sorry; non-threaded readers here and all of that. :-)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Digital wrote (2023-01-21):

Is there a modern M68K system available (to buy) that'll run a
modern linux?

Depends on the definition of modern m68k. If it includes fast, available and easy to use, the only one that comes to mind is qemu-system-m68k.

$ qemu-system-m68k -machine help
[...]
virt QEMU 7.2 M68K Virtual Machine (alias of virt-7.2)

Real hardware? There are some FPGA solutions and a bare metal emulator on Raspberry Pi (Emu68, PiStorm). I doubt that they are a good solution for running Linux.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Hi Dm,

Btw: would SBBS compile and work on M68K Linux?

Certainly not as-is (we don't fully support any big endian targets
today). Is there a modern M68K system available (to buy) that'll run a modern linux?

I didn't expect it to, and there's really no need for you to make changes
just to cater for a very limited use case.

There are no modern M68K system's, only ageing Amiga's! But yes Debian
will run on them. Debain for M68K is in the "Testing" branch...



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Oli,

Emu68 (the one for the PiStorm) is using the big-endian mode for it's
m68k emulation.

That makes sense! Saves having to do a lot of extra work...



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi tenser,

Linux m68k 6.1.0-1-m68k #1 Debian 6.1.4-1 (2023-01-07) m68k
GNU/Linux "Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid"

That's a pretty recent Linux, all right. I don't see why
the C++ bits wouldn't compile, but Digital Man would obviously
know a lot more than me about this.

The java bits would be the issue, and the Bit-wise of the code in Sync.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hi Oli,

Real hardware? There are some FPGA solutions and a bare metal emulator
on Raspberry Pi (Emu68, PiStorm). I doubt that they are a good
solution for running Linux.

When I had a Mister, I gave running linux on the emulated amiga core a go,
and it failed. The main one being the emulated CPU is only a 68020. The
kernel dosn't even load.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On 24 Jan 2023 at 09:16a, vorlon pondered and said...

The java bits would be the issue, and the Bit-wise of the code in Sync.

Synchronet uses Java? Or do you mean finding a suitable JavaScript
engine? Those two are rather different. :-)

I thought someone said that SpiderMonkey 1.8.5 was in the Debian
package repos for 68k Linux?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

tenser wrote (2023-01-24):

The java bits would be the issue, and the Bit-wise of the code in
Sync.

Synchronet uses Java? Or do you mean finding a suitable JavaScript
engine? Those two are rather different. :-)

I thought someone said that SpiderMonkey 1.8.5 was in the Debian
package repos for 68k Linux?

I said that, but I was wrong.

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 24 Jan 2023 at 12:23a, Oli pondered and said...

I thought someone said that SpiderMonkey 1.8.5 was in the Debian package repos for 68k Linux?

I said that, but I was wrong.

Ah. Too bad. I wonder how hard it would be to get it
to compile.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Ah. Too bad. I wonder how hard it would be to get it
to compile.

About this hard (This is the show stopper):

make[4]: Entering directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/src/mozjs/js-1.8.5/js/src'
jsoplengen.cpp
jsanalyze.cpp
In file included from jsval.h:48,
from jspubtd.h:47,
from jsprvtd.h:57,
from jscntxt.h:55,
from jsanalyze.h:45,
from jsanalyze.cpp:40:
jsutil.h:120:81: error: size -1 of array js_static_assert61 is negative
120 | typedef int JS_STATIC_ASSERT_GLUE(js_static_assert, __COUNTER__)[(cond) ? 1 : -1]
|
~~~~~~~^~~~~~~~
jscntxt.h:425:1: note: in expansion of macro JS_STATIC_ASSERT
425 | JS_STATIC_ASSERT(sizeof(StackSegment) % sizeof(Value) == 0);
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the directory /home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/src/mozjs/js-1.8.5/js/src
The following command failed to execute properly:
c++ -o jsanalyze.o -c -fvisibility=hidden -DOSTYPE="Linux6.1"
-DOSARCH=Linux -DEXPORT_JS_API -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS -DJS_HAS_CTYPES -DDLL_PREFIX="lib" -DDLL_SUFFIX=".so" -Ictypes/libffi/include -I. -I. -I. -I./dist/include -I./dist/include/nsprpub -I/usr/include/nspr -I.
-I./assembler -I./yarr -fPIC -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions -Wall
-Wpointer-arith -Woverloaded-virtual -Wsynth -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -Wcast-align -Wno-invalid-offsetof
-Wno-variadic-macros -Werror=return-type -pedantic -Wno-long-long
-std=gnu++98 -fno-strict-aliasing -pthread -pipe -DNDEBUG -DTRIMMED -O3
-w -DUSE_SYSTEM_MALLOC=1 -DENABLE_ASSEMBLER=1 -DENABLE_JIT=1
-DMOZILLA_CLIENT -include ./js-confdefs.h -MD -MF .deps/jsanalyze.pp jsanalyze.cpp

make[4]: *** [config/rules.mk:1477: jsanalyze.o] Error 1
make[4]: Leaving directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/src/mozjs/js-1.8.5/js/src'
make[3]: *** [config/rules.mk:754: default] Error 2
make[3]: Leaving directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/src/mozjs/js-1.8.5/js/src'
make[2]: *** [GNUmakefile:79:../build/../../src/../3rdp/gcc.linux.m68k.release/mozjs/li
Eror 2
make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/build'
make[1]: *** [/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/src/sbbs3/../build/Common.gmake:526:
js] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/src/sbbs3'
make: *** [GNUmakefile:152: sbbs3] Error 2



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On 26 Jan 2023 at 04:31p, vorlon pondered and said...

Ah. Too bad. I wonder how hard it would be to get it
to compile.

About this hard (This is the show stopper):

[snip]
jsutil.h:120:81: error: size -1 of array js_static_assert61 is negative 120 | typedef int JS_STATIC_ASSERT_GLUE(js_static_assert, __COUNTER__)[(cond) ? 1 : -1]

Clever; they're using the creation of an array of
negative length as a means to force a error if some
constant condition is not true at compile-time.

425 | JS_STATIC_ASSERT(sizeof(StackSegment) % sizeof(Value) == 0);

What this is saying is that the size of `StackSegment`
is not a multiple of the size of `Value`. Let's see
what those things are. `StackSegment` is a class that
appears to contain mostly a bunch of pointers; its
definition indicates it should be a multiple of 8-bytes
in length, and one sees that there's a preprocessor
conditional to add a padding word on 32-bit platforms
(like 68k); see line 249 of `jscntxt.h`. I think the
first thing I'd check is whether `JS_BITS_PER_WORD`
is properly set to 32 in your build.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: enigma on M68K linux
By: vorlon to tenser on Thu Jan 26 2023 04:31 pm

Ah. Too bad. I wonder how hard it would be to get it
to compile.

About this hard (This is the show stopper):

make[4]: Entering directory '/home/vk3heg/sbbs/repo/3rdp/src/mozjs/js-1.8.5/js/src'
jsoplengen.cpp
jsanalyze.cpp
In file included from jsval.h:48,
from jspubtd.h:47,
from jsprvtd.h:57,
from jscntxt.h:55,
from jsanalyze.h:45,
from jsanalyze.cpp:40:
jsutil.h:120:81: error: size -1 of array js_static_assert61 is negative
120 | typedef int JS_STATIC_ASSERT_GLUE(js_static_assert, __COUNTER__)[(cond) ? 1 : -1]
|

Just use the libmozjs-1.8.5-dev package (or similar) that's included with the distro (if there is one), rather than trying to use/build the one included in the Synchronet git repo.

And then you'd specify the JSINCLUDE and JSLIB options on the make command-line, as exemplified at http://wiki.synchro.net/howto:raspbian_install
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #84:
Looming low & ominous, twilight premature t-heads rumbling a distance overture Norco, CA WX: 60.5°F, 28.0% humidity, 2 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Hi Digital Man,

Ah. Too bad. I wonder how hard it would be to get it
to compile.

About this hard (This is the show stopper):

make[4]: Entering directory
120 | typedef int JS_STATIC_ASSERT_GLUE(js_static_assert, __COUNTER__)[(cond) ? 1 : -1]

Just use the libmozjs-1.8.5-dev package (or similar) that's included
with the distro (if there is one), rather than trying to use/build the
one included in the Synchronet git repo.

There is none.... and this machhine is uptodate as of today...


vk3heg@m68k:~/talisman$ sudo apt-get install libmozjs-1.8.5-dev
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package libmozjs-1.8.5-devE:
Couldn't find any package by glob 'libmozjs-1.8.5-dev'
E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'libmozjs-1.8.5-dev'




\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

vorlon wrote (2023-02-08):

Just use the libmozjs-1.8.5-dev package (or similar) that's included
with the distro (if there is one), rather than trying to use/build the
one included in the Synchronet git repo.

There is none.... and this machhine is uptodate as of today...

vk3heg@m68k:~/talisman$ sudo apt-get install libmozjs-1.8.5-dev
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package libmozjs-1.8.5-devE:
Couldn't find any package by glob 'libmozjs-1.8.5-dev'
E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'libmozjs-1.8.5-dev'

Name would be libmozjs185-dev, but this package has last been seen in Debian Stretch (oldoldstable):
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libmozjs185-dev

What is interesting is that there is a "M68k-alignment-fixes.patch" in the Debian source package:
https://packages.debian.org/source/stretch/mozjs

Maybe it is possible to build it on m68k. Which of course needs Python 2.7 to build as a build dependency. So good luck with that... (Python 2.7 has been removed from Debian bookworm and most recent distros).

Should we move the discussion to another echoarea? (FSX_BBS or SYNCHRONET in Fidonet)
Or is better to not break the thread and keep it here, even if it's not about Enigma anymore?




⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig
public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name and address/port if you're running one!

Westwood back in Enigma form for the last month or so - and plan to maintain so long as I don't jack anything up again LOL

westwoodbbs.net 8888/8889



... Don't be hesitant. Digital electronics can detect fear

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 1/10/2023 2:18 PM, NuSkooler wrote:> Looking to get a general grasp on who all is currently running enig public boards -- would love if you can respond with your board name and address/port if you're running one!> > I'd like to include them on the enig page> > > PlaneT Afr0 is still alive and kicking.https://planetafr0.org has VTX Client and fTelent and you can telnet to planetafr0.org on port 8888 and ssh on port 8889. Been doing a lot of tweaking on the board the last few weeks. Testing NNTPS with this post. Let's see if I blow everything up. If I do, I'm sorry. I have been known to make mistakes. From time to time.I'm finally starting to wrap my head about all the MCI and theming codes. I almost know what I'm doing.fC
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 14.21.3)
* Origin: PlaneT Afr0 ~ https://planetafr0.org (21:4/181)

Twas Saturday, May 6th when fC: fc@214/181; said...

I almost know what I'm doing.fC

Makes two of us :)




--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)