My BBSs are a mess. I've got 3-4 that I tinker with, but they all pretty
much use the same FTNs, just running as downlinks from a "main" BBS. And
here's the deal: I love all my BBS children the same, so I even hate to
call one "main."

BUT I am looking for recommendations on a better way to manage downlinks
for points... Typically, I run something like Mystic or Synchronet as the "main" bbs, as it makes handling downlinks pretty straightforward with
its admin interface. Talisman actually makes it easy, too, just with
text files.

In this scenario, the main BBS is the "official" BBS that connects to each network (but not necessarily the BBS that i 'use' all the time).

I was wondering if there was a way to run the front-end (e.g.
routing to the BBS main and points) *without* it running through a
specific BBS, as that BBS software may change at some point. Something
tells me there's a way, perhaps running as my own personal hub using
Husky or something?

This may be an ignorant question, I realize. But thanks for any
suggestions or pointers!



--- Talisman v0.9-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Corporation X BBS (21:4/158)

Re: Downlinks and points
By: Alpha to all on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:43 am

BUT I am looking for recommendations on a better way to manage downlinks for points... Typically, I run something like Mystic or Synchronet as the "main" bbs, as it makes handling downlinks pretty straightforward with
its admin interface. Talisman actually makes it easy, too, just with
text files.

I was wondering if there was a way to run the front-end (e.g.
routing to the BBS main and points) *without* it running through a specific BBS, as that BBS software may change at some point. Something tells me there's a way, perhaps running as my own personal hub using
Husky or something?

Sure, you could run a "hub" (like I run the Hub for Net 3 - which is BBSless), but your hub would technically be a "boss".

There are 2 ways. You do the husky compile install thing, binkd compile/install and you might find having something like golded useful as well, or you can pull my fidohub docker image and run with it.

The second option you docker install (which would take about 30s) and then docker run my image with a few config items, that I'm happy to help you with if you are interested in this path.

Once running you would configure binkd with your point details, and husky with the areas and you are set...

Yell out if you would like help either way.

...δεσ∩

... A jury -- twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 12 Jan 2021, Alpha said the following...

Something tells me there's a way, perhaps running as my own personal hub Al> using Husky or something?

I was thinking about doing exactly this as well. (More so when I was also running Telegard in addition to Mystic).

Check out the conversation going on right now in FSX_NET. Deon has a Docker image of Husky that I am thinking of taking a look at. A lot of good information in there right now on pointers about compiling HPT, etc (or just using Deon's Docker image) to get up and running.


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Alpha wrote (2021-01-12):

I was wondering if there was a way to run the front-end (e.g.
routing to the BBS main and points) *without* it running through a
specific BBS, as that BBS software may change at some point. Something tells me there's a way, perhaps running as my own personal hub using
Husky or something?

Yes, use a standalone tosser, this was the common setup in the olden days. Husky hpt would be one solution. Simpler to configure is Squish, Crashmail II or FMail (if you have a Windows machine for the FMail config app. The tosser itself runs on Linux, but the config app is not ported yet AFAIK).

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

I was wondering if there was a way to run the front-end (e.g.
routing to the BBS main and points) *without* it running through a specific BBS, as that BBS software may change at some point. Something tells me there's a way, perhaps running as my own personal hub using Husky or something?

Yes, use a standalone tosser, this was the common setup in the olden days.Husky hpt would be one solution. Simpler to configure is Squish, Crashmail IIor FMail (if you have a Windows machine for the FMail config app. The tosseritself runs on Linux, but the config app is not ported
yet AFAIK).

Thanks Oli. Going to play around with Husky, as I have a couple mins experience with it!

Cheers,

R

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
* Origin: New Mystic BBS (21:4/158)

On 13 Jan 2021 at 10:08p, Alpha pondered and said...

Thanks Oli. Going to play around with Husky, as I have a couple mins experience with it!

I hope you have a few hours :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Thanks Oli. Going to play around with Husky, as I have a couple mins experience with it!

I hope you have a few hours :)

Yeah, seems like a big lack of documentation and examples with some of this older software - heh. I spent about an hour going through the husky project repo and ancient docs time-stamped from the 1990's on sourceforge or whatever, and I'm like "maybe I'll just use Mystic to handle my downlinks" - lol

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Corporation X BBS (21:4/158)

On 14 Jan 2021 at 12:52a, Alpha pondered and said...

Yeah, seems like a big lack of documentation and examples with some of this older software - heh. I spent about an hour going through the husky

The docs are about. I've found some modules are better documented than others. This chap in Italy posted a lot of them to his server

http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/

http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/fidoconf/fidoconfig.html

http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/hpt/hpt.html

Hope that helps :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Downlinks and points
By: Alpha to Avon on Thu Jan 14 2021 12:52 am

Yeah, seems like a big lack of documentation and examples with some of this older software - heh. I spent about an hour going through the husky project repo and ancient docs time-stamped from the 1990's on sourceforge or whatever, and I'm like "maybe I'll just use Mystic to handle my downlinks" - lol

Yep, the docs are all over the place.

If you build from source you can install info files and html files that I think are mostly upto date. There is also a DVI option but I don't know what that is and it doesn't work here on my box.

There are man pages installed also but the documentation is.. all over the place.

I put up a zip in the root of my webserver that contains fidoconfig.html, hpt.html and htick.html. That's the most complete and all in one place documentation that I know of. It's for the current husky 1.9.

http://trmb.synchro.net/huskydoc.zip

Ttyl :-),
Al

... No user-serviceable parts inside (or outside).
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

On 14 Jan 2021, 02:44p, Avon said the following...

The docs are about. I've found some modules are better documented than others.This chap in Italy posted a lot of them to his server

http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/ http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/fidoconf/fidoconfig.html http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/hpt/hpt.html

I usually use the wiki on the GitHub page. It's pretty up-to-date.

https://github.com/huskyproject/hpt/wiki


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)

The docs are about. I've found some modules are better documented tha others.This chap in Italy posted a lot of them to his server

http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/ http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/fidoconf/fidoconfig.html http://mimac.bizzi.org/huskydocs/hpt/hpt.html

I usually use the wiki on the GitHub page. It's pretty up-to-date.

https://github.com/huskyproject/hpt/wiki

Thanks Avon, Al and BP!!
Will check them all out, and I just downloaded the ZIP from Al's server...

Cheers,

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Corporation X BBS (21:4/158)

Alpha wrote (2021-01-13):

Thanks Oli. Going to play around with Husky, as I have a couple mins experience with it!

Good luck. It's still a mystery to me why everybody wants to use such complicated and badly documented piece of software for distributing a bunch of mails. Survival of the weirdest (software) ... ;)

---
* Origin: no Telegram gating allowed (21:3/102)

Re: Downlinks and points
By: Oli to Alpha on Thu Jan 14 2021 11:28 am

Howdy,

Good luck. It's still a mystery to me why everybody wants to use such complicated and badly documented piece of software for distributing a bunch of mails. Survival of the weirdest (software) ... ;)

Actually it probably is a steep learning curve, but once setup it works really well. I dont touch the hub other than to add new link (which is a few lines, which I hope to oneday automate fully).

The documentation on github is pretty good, yes some options are a bit cryptic, but a post in the HUSKY echo normally gets an answer quickly.

Is there something else that is useful and more user friendly as a "hub" ? (Dont tell me Mystic, I wont believe you...)

...δεσ∩

... Interchangable devices won`t.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 15 Jan 2021, deon said the following...

Actually it probably is a steep learning curve, but once setup it works reallywell. I dont touch the hub other than to add new link (which is a few lines,which I hope to oneday automate fully).

The documentation on github is pretty good, yes some options are a bit cryptic,but a post in the HUSKY echo normally gets an answer quickly.

Hmm, since Paul has nothing to do, maybe he can spin up a new "Husky Guy" YouTube channel and show us all how he did it! ;)


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Hmm, since Paul has nothing to do, maybe he can spin up a new "Husky Guy" YouTube channel and show us all how he did it! ;)

I'd totally like and subscribe to a Husky Guy You Tube channel, hah

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Corporation X BBS (21:4/158)

Re: Re: Downlinks and points
By: Warpslide to deon on Thu Jan 14 2021 08:23 am

Howdy,

Hmm, since Paul has nothing to do, maybe he can spin up a new "Husky Guy" YouTube channel and show us all how he did it! ;)

Yeah, I've thought about doing a few videos as well - except mine would be about using those tools with docker - so the video would be way shorter :)

But not short enough to find the quiet time to do it...

...δεσ∩

... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 14 Jan 2021 at 03:31p, Alpha pondered and said...

Hmm, since Paul has nothing to do, maybe he can spin up a new "Husky YouTube channel and show us all how he did it! ;)

I'd totally like and subscribe to a Husky Guy You Tube channel, hah

First I have to learn the software enough... but perhaps in time, yes to this idea..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 15 Jan 2021, deon said the following...

Yeah, I've thought about doing a few videos as well - except mine would beabout using those tools with docker - so the video would be way
shorter :)

But not short enough to find the quiet time to do it...

I've been saying for years that I really want to learn more about docker, if you did do a video about that I'd watch it. :)


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

deon wrote (2021-01-15):

Good luck. It's still a mystery to me why everybody wants to use
such complicated and badly documented piece of software for
distributing a bunch of mails. Survival of the weirdest (software)
... ;)

Actually it probably is a steep learning curve, but once setup it works really well. I dont touch the hub other than to add new link (which is a few lines, which I hope to oneday automate fully).

The documentation on github is pretty good, yes some options are a bit cryptic, but a post in the HUSKY echo normally gets an answer quickly.

Is there something else that is useful and more user friendly as a "hub"
?

Every decent tosser should be good enough for hub stuff, AFAIK hpt was not very common in the 90s when Fidonet was way bigger. I never had a hub (only a node with points), so I don't know exactly what features I would miss that hpt provides and other tossers don't.

I thought also of nodes that aren't a hub and don't use 95% of hpt features. hpt makes Fidonet much more complicated than it is. A steep learning curve and complexity also means that it's harder to remember all the config parameters and is easier to shoot yourself in the foot.

I stopped considering hpt when I realized that it doesn't even have basic 5D support and 3D/4D had weird side effects with binkd on my system (which some experienced too, but many cannot reproduce).

Then there is the rescan bug for Squish message bases that puts the wrong time on 50% of the messages (one second off), which can cause dupes in the network. For a hub this is a really bad bug. It also created the wrong idea that the Squish format it fundamentally flawed and that Squish cannot store the original time correctly, which is not true. That this hasn't been fixed in 20+ years is astonishing.

(Dont tell me Mystic, I wont believe you...)

;)

Is it open source? Is it possible that bugs get fixed by the community. That would be my first requirement for a software that runs the network backbone. So yes, hpt is better than Mystic for hub stuff (I think).

Though a interactive UI (like Mystic's) for configuration makes it easier to configure a tosser.

---
* Origin: this message must NOT be gated to Telegram (21:3/102)

Re: Downlinks and points
By: Oli to deon on Fri Jan 15 2021 01:16 pm

Every decent tosser should be good enough for hub stuff, AFAIK hpt was not very common in the 90s when Fidonet was way bigger. I never had a hub (only a node with points), so I don't know exactly what features I would miss that hpt provides and other tossers don't.

It should. It's too bad that FE can't get a small update so it wouldn't always strip seen bys when tossing to an out of zone link.

Back when FE was last released that is exactly what we wanted/needed but today it is exactly what we don't want/need. I used FE back then, wonderful tosser.

FMail is also on my hit list but it doesn't currently include a linux native setup and I don't think I can run wine on my BBS machine, there is no xorg installed there.

I thought also of nodes that aren't a hub and don't use 95% of hpt features. hpt makes Fidonet much more complicated than it is. A steep learning curve and complexity also means that it's harder to remember all the config parameters and is easier to shoot yourself in the foot.

Actually hpt is not much harder to setup that squish. I used squish also years ago. It is a favorite. It's hard to get started but once you get going it starts to become logical.

I started using husky late in the 90's and was looking for software I could use on linux and that was a strong point. In those days there was little support for linux in the world of FTN software. Back then the husky project was started by a group of people in your part of the world. There was a large group of solid programmers and hackers supporting the project and they are the ones who originally brought the husky project to life. I love those guys!

Today the project seems to be comprised mostly of russian nodes who are doing their best to keep the project workable.

I stopped considering hpt when I realized that it doesn't even have basic 5D support and 3D/4D had weird side effects with binkd on my system (which some experienced too, but many cannot reproduce).

If you haven't already you should bring that up with the husky project. Software development is never a done deal and we have to keep on it or it falls into a state of disrepair. Sometimes those discussions are not quick and easy but we need to have those discussions.

Then there is the rescan bug for Squish message bases that puts the wrong time on 50% of the messages (one second off), which can cause dupes in the network. For a hub this is a really bad bug. It also created the wrong idea that the Squish format it fundamentally flawed and that Squish cannot store the original time correctly, which is not true. That this hasn't been fixed in 20+ years is astonishing.

I have heard that but it has never been a problem for me, no links here have ever told me there was an issue. We need to know what the problems are before we can even hope for a solution, so we need to bring issues up with the developers and keep talking about it until we get a solution.

Is it open source? Is it possible that bugs get fixed by the community. That would be my first requirement for a software that runs the network backbone. So yes, hpt is better than Mystic for hub stuff (I think).

Though a interactive UI (like Mystic's) for configuration makes it easier to configure a tosser.

It's not open source. Not every programmer can work in a group but in the case of Mystic the author is interested in solving problems. Development is not always fast but it is ongoing.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... What bug? That's a feature
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Hi, i had a question...
i keep seeing refernces to "husky" is that some kind of echomail software?
and what exactly does it do?
i know i am a N00b here, so i'm not afraid to ask dumb questions. lol

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Re: Re: Downlinks and points
By: gcubebuddy to deon on Fri Jan 15 2021 02:39 pm

Hi, i had a question...
i keep seeing refernces to "husky" is that some kind of echomail software? and what exactly does it do?

Husky is a suite of open source FTN software. It includes a tosser (hpt) and a file tosser (htick).

It's all open source and free to use.

https://github.com/huskyproject has more info.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Al wrote (2021-01-15):

It should. It's too bad that FE can't get a small update so it wouldn't always strip seen bys when tossing to an out of zone link.

Back when FE was last released that is exactly what we wanted/needed but today it is exactly what we don't want/need. I used FE back then,
wonderful tosser.

Not stripping SEEN-BYs between zones is a dirty hack anyway. If networks are not overlapping and we don't need zone gates, why do we have zones in Fidonet?

FMail is also on my hit list but it doesn't currently include a linux native setup and I don't think I can run wine on my BBS machine, there is no xorg installed there.

You don't have to use the config app on the same machine.

Actually hpt is not much harder to setup that squish. I used squish also years ago. It is a favorite. It's hard to get started but once you get going it starts to become logical.

I managed to set it up and I recognized the logic. Still, it was much less fun than other software and without previous experience with setting up several tossers I would have been lost.

I started switching back to Squish. The only thing missing is the NNTP server for Squish. SmapiNNTPd is a fork of JamNNTPd, but several commits behind.

I started using husky late in the 90's and was looking for software I
could use on linux and that was a strong point. In those days there was little support for linux in the world of FTN software. Back then the
husky project was started by a group of people in your part of the world.

I think that was around the time I dropped out of Fidonet. The WorldWideWeb was much more interesting ;).

I stopped considering hpt when I realized that it doesn't even have
basic 5D support and 3D/4D had weird side effects with binkd on my
system (which some experienced too, but many cannot reproduce).

If you haven't already you should bring that up with the husky project. Software development is never a done deal and we have to keep on it or it falls into a state of disrepair. Sometimes those discussions are not
quick and easy but we need to have those discussions.

Been there, done that (in other projects). As I don't use hpt and have no intentions to do so in the future, it's just not on top of my priority list.

Then there is the rescan bug for Squish message bases that puts the
wrong time on 50% of the messages (one second off), which can cause
dupes in the network. For a hub this is a really bad bug. It also
created the wrong idea that the Squish format it fundamentally
flawed and that Squish cannot store the original time correctly,
which is not true. That this hasn't been fixed in 20+ years is
astonishing.

I have heard that but it has never been a problem for me, no links here have ever told me there was an issue. We need to know what the problems
are before we can even hope for a solution, so we need to bring issues up with the developers and keep talking about it until we get a solution.

I brought it up in the Husky echo. If it hasn't been silently fixed last year, it's still there. The problem is known, if it doesn't get fixed, it doesn't get fixed. I'm not a hpt user.

Is it open source? ...

It's not open source. Not every programmer can work in a group but in the case of Mystic the author is interested in solving problems. Development
is not always fast but it is ongoing.

Bus factor 1 is still a problem in case of a critical bug that doesn't get fixed, because the developer is unavailable or won't fix the problem for whatever reason.

---
* Origin: this message must NOT be gated to Telegram (21:3/102)