Hello Aaron,

This angle confuses me. I can't think of a time since I've been voting
where people tried so hard to make believe the VP was the incumbent.

Just being part of the administration that did so much harm makes people blame her for it all.

The JFK administration ended when JFK got his head blown off.
The LBJ administration began when JFK got his head blown off.

The RMN administration ended when RMN resigned from office in disgrace.
The Ford administration began when RMN resigned from office in disgrace.

The Biden administration will remain until the end of his term.
The Harris administration will begin with the start of her term.

If Mike Pence was running for president, you wouldn't see liberals forgiving
him for his involvement with Trump.

Mike Pence ran for president in this election cycle.
He never made it to the first primary or caucus.

As such, liberals are excused for not having had time to forgive
him for all his mistakes.

For Life,
Lee

--
Fox News Slogan - Rich people paying rich people
to tell middle class people to blame poor people.

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None of his other rallies were down the street from where the Electoral Votes were being counted, either, and I doubt he suggests at any other rallies that the crowd should march down to somewhere else after he is done.

Being chosen by God puts pressure on a guy. :)

That is an issue that has already been decided. I want to hear more
about some of the plans for what sound like potential pie-in-the-sky promises.

I don't think Trump needs many of those, it's just good vs evil and save the country vs trash the country. But Trump has mentioned no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, and no tax on social security.

Kamala is making some of those, too. The "$25,000 for first time home buyers" apparently has some fine print where "first time" means "first generation." So if your parents or grandparents owned a home in the US you won't qualify.

I haven't heard about it but that's very snakey behavior. People who rent awful apartments will walk right into that trap.

I'll take your word for it that Kamala made sense one day, but that was like no other. Lies can be coherent, but they can never truly "make sens

It isn't just one day. Her debate performance was not all word salad, either. Like I said before, she seemed like a different person there.

Ahead of the debate, Kamala was being coached by the attorney for Google (in the USA vs Google case, which is a crime in iteself.) He must have sat down with her and explained things, and advised what she can and can't say, and she did it right. She will need get with that guy every time she speaks in public from now on.

When Trump improperly referenced West Virginia (when he meant to say Virginia) that was an opportunity for Harris to correct him and look smart, but she was too dumb to even do that.

Which part of the debate did she make sense on?

Until Kamala starts telling us why her administration let in more than 2 million migrants without visas, everything she says is technically the definition of "world salad."

No, it really isn't. That was the point I am trying to make. If you are "listening" to her and not listening because you've already decided she isn't for you, that doesn't make what she is saying "word salad" any more than when a never-Trumper "listens" to Trump and says he is babbling.

You're right.

"Word salad" is when someone is speaking incoherently or throwing out a bunch of unrelated buzz phrases. Coherently saying something you just don't like doesn't not equal "word salad."

It's just that the things she talks about, that I heard, are extremely unimportant because I'm fixated on the border issue. Maybe that's how the
leftists felt in 2020; they were fixated on covid-19, and it looked to them like Trump did it and he was refusing to fix it. Unless Trump would say "I fixed covid," the leftists didn't want to hear what he had to say.

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Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

He has sure excercised a lot of control over Johnson and other MAGA members on certain issues. Don't vote the way I want you to and suffer the consequences of being labeled a RINO and being hounded by my most ardent supporters.

Did you see proof of Trump making those demands? I have not.

I'm a MAGA guy, but I don't need Trump to tell me that the border bill was no good. I would have sent an angry letter to my rep had he voted for that bill.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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If Mike Pence was running for president, you wouldn't see liberals forgiving
him for his involvement with Trump.

Mike Pence ran for president in this election cycle.
He never made it to the first primary or caucus.

As such, liberals are excused for not having had time to forgive
him for all his mistakes.

Liberals actually started to like him when he began trashing Trump. And I know that you guys would like having Pence for president because the world elite is also down with Pence. Anything but Trump, because Trump refuses bribes.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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None of his other rallies were down the street from where the Electoral Votes were being counted, either, and I doubt he suggests at any other rallies that the crowd should march down to somewhere else after he is done.

Being chosen by God puts pressure on a guy. :)

I do not believe he, or Kamala, are "chosen by God." Beliefs like that
when it comes to someone in politics will get you in a lot of trouble.

That is an issue that has already been decided. I want to hear more about some of the plans for what sound like potential pie-in-the-sky promises.

I don't think Trump needs many of those, it's just good vs evil and save the country vs trash the country. But Trump has mentioned no tax on tips, no tax o
overtime, and no tax on social security.

You brought up cutting power bills in half. That sounds pretty pie in the
sky that, I am guessing, could become true for some. I don't think he can promise that to everyone and have it work out, though, without a really
good plan.

I am on the fence about taxing OT. I think that should depend on how much money you make overall. I have worked places where people are not making
much and are working their tails off. I have also worked places where
people are making plenty but are intentionally pissing about during their alloted 40 hours so they winding up earning OT (and causing others who don't want it to get some, too). They should be taxed as they are now.

I suspect that all of these things he is suggesting regarding "no tax on"
will not really pan out the way people think, though. The President won't
have any control over what states do, and I am sure most of them will
continue taxing whatever they are taxing now.

Kamala is making some of those, too. The "$25,000 for first time home >MP> buyers" apparently has some fine print where "first time" means "first >MP> generation." So if your parents or grandparents owned a home in the US >MP> you won't qualify.

I haven't heard about it but that's very snakey behavior. People who rent awful
apartments will walk right into that trap.

It will buy some votes I am sure.

When Trump improperly referenced West Virginia (when he meant to say Virginia)
that was an opportunity for Harris to correct him and look smart, but she was too dumb to even do that.

She probably knew what he was saying, regardless of which state, has been debunked and that only die-hard never-gonna-vote-Harris people would
believe it.

Which part of the debate did she make sense on?

Most of it. She wasn't word-salading for the most part. Now, she
completely ignored some questions for sure, but she was coherent.

"Word salad" is when someone is speaking incoherently or throwing out a bunch of unrelated buzz phrases. Coherently saying something you just don't like doesn't not equal "word salad."

It's just that the things she talks about, that I heard, are extremely unimportant because I'm fixated on the border issue. Maybe that's how the leftists felt in 2020; they were fixated on covid-19, and it looked to them like Trump did it and he was refusing to fix it. Unless Trump would say "I fixed covid," the leftists didn't want to hear what he had to say.

Back when the Republicans chose to vote against giving the President the
power to close the border, weren't you one of the ones that said the border "wasn't important"?


* SLMR 2.1a * In plumbing, a straight flush is better than a full house
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Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

He has sure excercised a lot of control over Johnson and other MAGA members on certain issues. Don't vote the way I want you to and suffer the consequences of being labeled a RINO and being hounded by my most ardent supporters.

Did you see proof of Trump making those demands? I have not.

Yes, it was all over the press. I have linked below one of many a google search found.

I'm a MAGA guy, but I don't need Trump to tell me that the border bill was no good. I would have sent an angry letter to my rep had he voted for that bill.

It is better than what we have. Funny how the same people who complain
about executive orders one minute are the same ones saying "he can already
do that (with an executive order)" the next.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democrats-immigr ation-border-bill

"Republicans, who have repeatedly demanded Democrats act on the border, abandoned the compromise proposal at the behest of Donald Trump who saw it was a political 'gift' for Biden's re-election chances.

"In February, after months of negotiations, a bipartisan group of senators had unveiled an immigration compromise. [...] The legislation, which would have made major changes to immigration law and received endorsements from the National Border Patrol Council and the US Chamber of Commerce, initially appeared to have the support to pass. But then Trump denounced the plan as
weak and demanded his allies in the Senate abandon it. They quickly followed his lead.

"When it came to the floor, the measure failed in a 50-49 vote, far short of the 60 ayes needed to move forward. All but four Republicans opposed it. They were joined by a group of liberal and Latino Democrats who argued that the approach was too punitive and failed to include relief for immigrants who have lived and worked in the US for years."

Please note that the Democrats who opposed it did so because the approach was "too punitive" -- in other words, *too strict*. Please also note that this February bill had the endorsement of the border patrol council.

The article goes on to talk about the weaker bill, which came later (maybe
in May?) and which was also killed by Republicans. That one may have been rightfully killed but also would not have been necessary if they'd done their damn jobs to being with, kept their promise, and voted for the stricter February bill.


* SLMR 2.1a * No Purchase Required. Details in package.
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I do not believe he, or Kamala, are "chosen by God." Beliefs like that when it comes to someone in politics will get you in a lot of trouble.

Relying on a candidate being chosen by God would be a mistake, because we've got to do a lot more than just chant slogans.

Praying for Trump's victory is the way to go. I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.

You brought up cutting power bills in half. That sounds pretty pie in
the sky that, I am guessing, could become true for some. I don't think
he can promise that to everyone and have it work out, though, without a really good plan.

Has your bill gone up drastically since Biden became president? I've been watching mine climb, and I just paid a very ridiculous bill of $267 for August, which is more than double what it was last year. I used to only get bills this high in the winter, and only in the coldest months like January and February.

While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wondered "Do Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because it sure seems like it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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I accidentally saved my message too quickly... there's more to this conversation:

I am on the fence about taxing OT. I think that should depend on how
much money you make overall. I have worked places where people are not making much and are working their tails off. I have also worked places where people are making plenty but are intentionally pissing about
during their alloted 40 hours so they winding up earning OT (and causing others who don't want it to get some, too). They should be taxed as
they are now.

It's kind of a gimmick, but not necessarily a bad one. And definitely not a gimmick that causes division.

I suspect that all of these things he is suggesting regarding "no tax on" will not really pan out the way people think, though. The President
won't have any control over what states do, and I am sure most of them will continue taxing whatever they are taxing now.

He's got to be talking just about Federal income tax. That will be a bigger amount than the state tax anyway (in most states at least.) So having that extra income not subject to Federal income tax sounds like something we could all probably live with.

When Trump improperly referenced West Virginia (when he meant to say Virginia)
that was an opportunity for Harris to correct him and look smart, but sh too dumb to even do that.

She probably knew what he was saying, regardless of which state, has been debunked and that only die-hard never-gonna-vote-Harris people would

Right - she probably knew that he was referring to Virginia, but I think she would have looked (kinda) smart if she corrected him on that. Then she could have went on to correct him for inaccurately describing the abortion law itself, but she failed. She doesn't actually know that facts any better than Trump does.

Stuff like that is why I don't get what anyone means when they say "Kamala did good."

Most of it. She wasn't word-salading for the most part. Now, she completely ignored some questions for sure, but she was coherent.

That's more like it. She evaded questions. ("Is the USA better now than it was 4 years ago?") But how can you call that "coherent?" Because she evaded the questions in a coherent way?

It's just that the things she talks about, that I heard, are extremely unimportant because I'm fixated on the border issue. Maybe that's how th leftists felt in 2020; they were fixated on covid-19, and it looked to t like Trump did it and he was refusing to fix it. Unless Trump would say fixed covid," the leftists didn't want to hear what he had to say.

Back when the Republicans chose to vote against giving the President the power to close the border, weren't you one of the ones that said the border "wasn't important"?

I might have said "closing the border is less important than deporting the 20 million+ illegal immigrants."

Plus, that legislation didn't give the power to the president to close the border; it gave him/her the power to close it ONLY IF: The # of crossings reaches X (a number in the thousands.)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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Hello Aaron,

If Mike Pence was running for president, you wouldn't see liberals
forgiving
him for his involvement with Trump.

Mike Pence ran for president in this election cycle.
He never made it to the first primary or caucus.

As such, liberals are excused for not having had time to forgive
him for all his mistakes.

Liberals actually started to like him when he began trashing Trump.

It all started with the fly. Live and on camera, President Obama
showed the world what to do when a fly lands on your arm. Use your
hand on your other arm and swat it. One swat and that fly was dead.

With Pence it was an entirely different matter. We all watched
the debate, when a fly landed on top of Pence's head. The fly was
the star of the show, dancing around for all to see. And what did
Pence do? He just stood there. Staring at the camera. Without a
single thought in his head as to what to do.

And I know that you guys would like having Pence for president because the world elite is also down with Pence.

Even after having been shown by Obama as to what to do when a fly
lands on your person, Pence still did not have a clue. Imagine what
would happen if he ordered a bowl of soup and found there was a fly
swimming in it. He would have eaten it, thinking it was part of the
meal.

Anything but Trump, because Trump refuses bribes.

He is a convicted felon due to his bad business practices.

For Life,
Lee

--
The first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democrats-i ation-border-bill

I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any proof that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.

"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trump gave a big thumbs-down to house members."

It is better than what we have. Funny how the same people who complain about executive orders one minute are the same ones saying "he can
already do that (with an executive order)" the next.

Yea, all we can expect and hope for is for Trump to get elected so he can protect us from illegal immigrants for 4 more years. The senate doesn't want the mess cleaned up - just look at what's in that bill. That bill was going to legitimize thousands of illegal crossings per day, which would make things difficult for a president who wants to "deport all illegals."

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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It all started with the fly. Live and on camera, President Obama
showed the world what to do when a fly lands on your arm. Use your
hand on your other arm and swat it. One swat and that fly was dead.

With Pence it was an entirely different matter. We all watched
the debate, when a fly landed on top of Pence's head. The fly was
the star of the show, dancing around for all to see. And what did
Pence do? He just stood there. Staring at the camera. Without a
single thought in his head as to what to do.

Obama made a pact with the devil, but that doesn't mean that he's a reptilian.

Pence is a reptilian. He can't overreact to a fly on his face because that will scare the prey away.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wondered "Do Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because
it sure seems like it.

That reminds of how ignorant some people can be about economics.

Background: the condo that I live in has the fees for the water in the monthly assocition fee.

Our city had a large factory that needed clean water. It made more than it needed and, so, let the city buy the extra water. But that factory is gone and the city had to create its own water treatment facility.

So, one year, the water fee went up a great deal. When the announcement was made (and it was made a few months BEFORE the fee went up), we were told that the city was charging us more and the association was passing on those increases to us. They even included the calculations to show how each unit went up, announcement from the city, etc.

It was amazing how many people were mad at the association because someone else raised the cost of water.


... Seeing is believing, Touching is convincing..
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
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So, one year, the water fee went up a great deal. When the announcement was made (and it was made a few months BEFORE the fee went up), we were told that the city was charging us more and the association was passing
on those increases to us. They even included the calculations to show
how each unit went up, announcement from the city, etc.

It was amazing how many people were mad at the association because
someone else raised the cost of water.

The president gets more blame than they deserve, probably. However, what causes electric bills to double in price? If it's because of oil prices, then that's the president's fault. If it's because of labor disputes, then that's the president's fault too. We need our president to act like our manager, and our stuff is not being managed well.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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I do not believe he, or Kamala, are "chosen by God." Beliefs like that when it comes to someone in politics will get you in a lot of trouble.

Relying on a candidate being chosen by God would be a mistake, because we've got to do a lot more than just chant slogans.

Agreed.

Praying for Trump's victory is the way to go. I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.

A good thing about this country is that we are free to pray about
whatever we want to whichever God(s) we want.

You brought up cutting power bills in half. That sounds pretty pie in the sky that, I am guessing, could become true for some. I don't think he can promise that to everyone and have it work out, though, without a really good plan.

Has your bill gone up drastically since Biden became president? I've been watching mine climb, and I just paid a very ridiculous bill of $267 for August
which is more than double what it was last year. I used to only get bills this
high in the winter, and only in the coldest months like January and February.

I thought it had, but I was recently shreding some older documents and
realized it has been about 50% higher for longer than I thought. Still
since Biden took office, though.

While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wondered "D
Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because it sure seems like it.

No, but they do other things that make the cost of electricity for the companies higher. Also, some of the big companies (who sell to the smaller ones like we have here) probably are donating to one side or the other.


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I am on the fence about taxing OT. I think that should depend on how much money you make overall. I have worked places where people are not making much and are working their tails off. I have also worked places where people are making plenty but are intentionally pissing about during their alloted 40 hours so they winding up earning OT (and causing others who don't want it to get some, too). They should be taxed as they are now.

It's kind of a gimmick, but not necessarily a bad one. And definitely not a gimmick that causes division.

Like I said, people who are making below a certain amount shouldn't have
their OT taxed. People above that amount maybe should. I don't want to be working OT so they can pay off their lake house or big boat.

I suspect that all of these things he is suggesting regarding "no tax on"
will not really pan out the way people think, though. The President won't have any control over what states do, and I am sure most of them will continue taxing whatever they are taxing now.

He's got to be talking just about Federal income tax. That will be a bigger amount than the state tax anyway (in most states at least.) So having that extra income not subject to Federal income tax sounds like something we could all probably live with.

Agreed. I hope the people he is promising that to realize that, though.
Some will take it litterally, which is what I was getting at.

She probably knew what he was saying, regardless of which state, has been
debunked and that only die-hard never-gonna-vote-Harris people would

Right - she probably knew that he was referring to Virginia, but I think she would have looked (kinda) smart if she corrected him on that. Then she could have went on to correct him for inaccurately describing the abortion law itself, but she failed. She doesn't actually know that facts any better than Trump does.

Well, in that case, I can't remember now but avoiding the correction in
order to stay on topic (which I doubt happened!) would not have been a bad thing.

Stuff like that is why I don't get what anyone means when they say "Kamala did
good."

She did a heck of a lot better than most people thought she would, so she
did "good" compared to what was expected. People who don't like Trump
probably noticed that she did a decent job of triggering him a bit, getting
him to go off topic and on rants... something he didn't do during the Biden debate where, IMHO, he had a much better performance.

She got him off on tangents where he ranted about already-debunked or now-debunked situations at least twice, which played well to her supporters.

The fact that she did better than Biden probably made a lot of her
supporters think she did "good."

Most of it. She wasn't word-salading for the most part. Now, she completely ignored some questions for sure, but she was coherent.

That's more like it. She evaded questions. ("Is the USA better now than it was
4 years ago?") But how can you call that "coherent?" Because she evaded the questions in a coherent way?

She spoke coherently, which was more than I expected from her. Performance wise, I think she did "good" because she exceeded my expectations regarding coherent speech. Content wise, I don't really think she did "good" because
I don't agree with her.

A Kamala/Democrat/left-leaning supporter would disagree with me on the
second point and say she did "good" because they either agree with her, or
just cannot stand Trump.


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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democrats-
ation-border-bill

I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any proof that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.

"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trump gave
a big thumbs-down to house members."

Him bad mouthing and suggesting the GOP vote against the bill was all over
the news. It is not my fault if you don't watch it.

It is better than what we have. Funny how the same people who complain about executive orders one minute are the same ones saying "he can already do that (with an executive order)" the next.

Yea, all we can expect and hope for is for Trump to get elected so he can protect us from illegal immigrants for 4 more years. The senate doesn't want the mess cleaned up - just look at what's in that bill. That bill was going to
legitimize thousands of illegal crossings per day, which would make things difficult for a president who wants to "deport all illegals."

It didn't legitimize illegal crossings. It allowed for a cap on crossings
at legal border crossings. The bill would have been a lot better than what we have now and didn't do anything to stop Republicans from passing something
even more strict once Trump got into office.

Seeing how liberal Democrats voted against it because it was "too strict"
tells me it was not a bad bill.

Since February, when the bill was killed, every single illegal that has got into the country is equally on the heads of Trump, Johnson, and all of their cronnies as is is on the head of Biden. It stopped being the "Biden border crisis" at that point.


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The president gets more blame than they deserve, probably. However, what cause
electric bills to double in price? If it's because of oil prices, then that's the president's fault.

It is only the President's fault if his/her policies caused the price to go
up.

If it's because of labor disputes, then that's the
president's fault too.

No in most cases it is not.

We need our president to act like our manager, and our
stuff is not being managed well.

The office of President has certain responsibilities. We don't need a President who oversteps their bounds and starts getting involved in things
that others are responsible for.

What your are suggesting should happen is what big government liberals want.


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Hello Aaron,

I do not believe he, or Kamala, are "chosen by God."

Obama is The Chosen One.

Beliefs like that when it comes to someone in politics MP>will get you in

a lot of trouble.

It worked for Obama. He even won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Before taking office. If that doesn't tell you something,
I do not know what does.

Relying on a candidate being chosen by God would be a mistake, because we've
got to do a lot more than just chant slogans.

Hope and Change. Together. What does it spell? Freedom.

Praying for Trump's victory is the way to go.

Hillary Cllinton beat him by over 3 million votes in 2016.
Joe Biden beat him by over 7 million votes in 2020.
Kamala Harris will clock him by an even greater score in 2024.

I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.

All the prayers in the world will come to naught as the
American people have the last and final say.

For Life,
Lee

--
The first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wonde "D
Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because it sure seems it.

No, but they do other things that make the cost of electricity for the companies higher. Also, some of the big companies (who sell to the smaller ones like we have here) probably are donating to one side or the other.

That was also part of my fear, that the extra money was being used against
me. Apparently my fears aren't as irrational as I thought.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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She got him off on tangents where he ranted about already-debunked or now-debunked situations at least twice, which played well to her supporters.

I don't remember Trump repeating debunked claims, but debunking is a word that means a lot of different things to lots of different people. For example, my friend Alan thinks that debunking means reading typed words on websites. Do you remember when nobody ever used the word "debunk?" It was like 9 years ago.

The fact that she did better than Biden probably made a lot of her supporters think she did "good."

That's probably true. They are told what to believe, and the media has been telling everyone that she did good.

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I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any pr that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.

"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trum gave
a big thumbs-down to house members."

Him bad mouthing and suggesting the GOP vote against the bill was all
over the news. It is not my fault if you don't watch it.

The news isn't a communications device for the president and congress. I don't believe that Trump forced his opinion on anybody. And if he did, then there would have to be more to that story, like what violent thing did he threaten to do to Mike Johnson if the legislation had passed? "You better listen to me boy." lol

It didn't legitimize illegal crossings. It allowed for a cap on
crossings at legal border crossings. The bill would have been a lot better than what we have now and didn't do anything to stop Republicans from passing something even more strict once Trump got into office.

The way I remember reading it was "a cap on ILLEGAL border crossings."

Why would we cap the legal crossings? That would not make sense, and would not be productive.

Seeing how liberal Democrats voted against it because it was "too strict" tells me it was not a bad bill.

Not bad for us but bad for them, and that's ultimately bad for us too because we need a few of their votes.

Since February, when the bill was killed, every single illegal that has got into the country is equally on the heads of Trump, Johnson, and all
of their cronnies as is is on the head of Biden. It stopped being the "Biden border crisis" at that point.

I just don't see the Trump pressure.

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The president gets more blame than they deserve, probably. However, what cause
electric bills to double in price? If it's because of oil prices, then t the president's fault.

It is only the President's fault if his/her policies caused the price to go up.

What about us needing a president who will be our rock?

If it's because of labor disputes, then that's the
president's fault too.

No in most cases it is not.

He or she needs to be on top of those things instead of taking a beach vacation. They need to solve problems before they become problems - that's effective management.

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I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.

All the prayers in the world will come to naught as the
American people have the last and final say.

Maybe some people need 4 more years of destruction. Maybe the Democrats are doing that good of a job hiding everything from them.

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On 28 Sep 2024, Aaron Thomas said the following...

That's not what I hear, though. I hear "she should have done all the things already that she's promising to do now."

That's what Trump said about her. I'm just saying that she's guilty by association.

There are answers to certain questions that can be inferred:

Q: Why did Joe let in more than 20 million migrants without visas?
A: Because it will create more house seats that only Democrats can fill.

I still don't know where that 20 million number comes from. It certainly isn't an accurate representation of the immigrant population. The total immigrant population (all nationalities, including illegals) is somewhere around 47-48 million, and it was 45 million under Trump. That's a net gain of 3 million people over 4 years.

I did see a Pew research number somewhere that said the total illegal population was something like 11 million. That did not happen in 4 years.

The immigration/fentanyl/criminal/rapist/insanity issue as a whole is complete rubbish. I can't believe there are people with the ability to think critically that get roped into making it an issue of primary concern.

Q: Is Kamala a Democrat, like Joe?
A: Yes.

Do you also have two arms and two legs, just like Joe?

Certainly that's a source of unending consternation.

Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.

Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about it? A: Nothing.

On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassingly little to solve much of anything in quite a while.

Again, not defending Harris. I'm saying on a lot of this stuff, there's nothing to defend. The primary role of the VP is not to pass legislation. It's all just diversionary garbage.

RS

... Every plastic toy dinosaur is made from real dinosaurs.

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I do remember a lot of non-supporters blaming Cheney for things that happened while Bush was President, and IIRC Gore also tried taking credit for some things that happened while Clinton was President.

To a far lesser degree, I agree. I think my original statement (or intent, at least) was to say that I've never seen it this pronounced.

Harris has most certainly been trying to take credit for things she
thinks are good, while distancing herself from things she thinks have
not turned out good, that resulted from Biden's Presidency.

I admittedly have not been paying very close attention to her campaign, so I don't recall what those wins are that she's sharing credit for. (That's also partly because I don't think the administration really had any big wins in the first place.)

(2) we now have his VP (who is the new candidate) showing up at places and events where you would normally expect to be seeing the President.

That's fair. And I believe it was Aaron who made a "guilt by association" claim that, if using more of this foundation, would have scored with me.

If you accept credit, even if it is something you didn't really accomplish yourself, you open yourself up for blame, too.

Very fair assessment. After this conversation, I'll definitely be paying more attention to things like that.

RS

... The secret of getting ahead is mastering the guillotine.

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Has your bill gone up drastically since Biden became president? I've been watching mine climb, and I just paid a very ridiculous bill of $267 for August, which is more than double what it was last year. I used to only get bills this high in the winter, and only in the coldest months like January and February.

While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wondered "Do Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because
it sure seems like it.

I mean, you could live in Ohio, where the Republican controlled government was in cahoots with First Energy. Our bills have more than tripled. We went from $0.042/kWh to $0.149 in less than a year. We're 100% electric here, so a $400 bill has become the average in the hot AND cold months.

Part of this is inflation as well, which is an issue that infuriates me to no end to hear being tossed at the feet of the current administration. Quantitative Easing was Trump's big play in 2019 and 2020.

The result was pumping out something along the lines of a 40% increase of paper money in circulation. That, combined with the already escalating GLOBAL inflation issue, means that Trump and the Fed should be holding the bag on the current inflation issue. That this isn't a major point of discussion is disgusting.

They've just done an incredibly amazing job of passing the buck.

Not really sorry about the pun. :)

... My life's an open book, but it's poorly written and I die in the end.

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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democr ation-border-bill

I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any proof that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.

"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trump gave a big thumbs-down to house members."

Trump, at the time, was very vocal about taking credit for the bill failing. I do recall reading an article then where it named specific people and phone calls made, but my Google-fu is weak today.

He's got quotes as far back as January saying he would fight the bill all
the way, and no bill was better than a bad bill.

Perhaps he didn't have full control over the MAGA congress, but to say that he had no influence is disingenuous.

RS

... "Road work ahead" ... I sure hope it does!

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Q: Why did Joe let in more than 20 million migrants without visas?
A: Because it will create more house seats that only Democrats can fi

I still don't know where that 20 million number comes from. It certainly isn't an accurate representation of the immigrant population. The total immigrant population (all nationalities, including illegals) is
somewhere around 47-48 million, and it was 45 million under Trump.
That's a net gain of 3 million people over 4 years.

I'm talking about undocumented migrants; people without background checks. Not "immigrants." I don't know where the numbers come from either, but they are often reported by the media and they range from 7 to 20 million, while Trump has suggested that Biden may have let in closer to 40 million undocumented migrants.

Also, this isn't about an "immigrant population," this is about the number of foreigners who entered the USA without a visa while Biden was president.

I did see a Pew research number somewhere that said the total illegal population was something like 11 million. That did not happen in 4 years.

I appreciate that but listen to yourself: illegal population? That is ridiculous. Think about it: 1) there hasn't been a census count since years before Biden opened the border 2) even if we did a census count yesterday, how many people are going to report it on paper that they are illegal immigrants? 3) there's no way to accurately measure the number of illegal immigrants.

Q: Is Kamala a Democrat, like Joe?
A: Yes.

Do you also have two arms and two legs, just like Joe?

Certainly that's a source of unending consternation.

This means: Joe wants the border open, he has the same handlers as Kamala, so therefore Kamala wants the border open too.

Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote
down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.

Mike tried to make that same argument but I guess I'll have to say this: it's been debunked. Ex presidents don't control anything. Trump doesn't control congress. He doesn't have "pull." If ex presidents controlled congress, which they don't, then what would the purpose of having a congress be?

Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about i A: Nothing.

On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassingly little to solve much of anything in quite a while.

It's not just Democrats, there are no useful Republicans either. Not in congress at least.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

The president gets more blame than they deserve, probably. However,
what causes electric bills to double in price? If it's because of oil prices, then that's the president's fault. If it's because of labor disputes, then that's the president's fault too. We need our president
to act like our manager, and our stuff is not being managed well.

That's because it's not being managed in our favor - as the President should. It's being managed in favor of the Elitists and their stupid ideas about how economies work.


... I'll get to it on the 2nd Tuesday of next week.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is th any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" o "Trump gave a big thumbs-down to house members."

Trump, at the time, was very vocal about taking credit for the bill failing. I do recall reading an article then where it named specific people and phone calls made, but my Google-fu is weak today.

Did the article say what was said in the phone calls?

Which congress members allowed Trump to control their votes?

What would have happened to them if they didn't follow Trump's orders?

Were they going to vote in favor of the bill if it weren't for Trump?

What did their constituents have to say about the bill?

It's hard to remember all that stuff, but it's easier to remember a narrative about Trump killing the bill as a campaign strategy. (Trying to help you!)

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While watching the bill get higher and higher, the whole time I've wond
"D
Democrats allow utility companies to rip us off?" Because it sure seems
it.

No, but they do other things that make the cost of electricity for the companies higher. Also, some of the big companies (who sell to the smaller ones like we have here) probably are donating to one side or the other.

That was also part of my fear, that the extra money was being used against me. Apparently my fears aren't as irrational as I thought.

Note that I said "probably" as I have no proof. There is a big gas and electric company on the West Coast that gets in trouble a lot but then
seems to wiggle out of it, and it is a common belief that they are doing so
by above-or-under-the-table donations.

If a company is really smart, they probably "butter both sides of the
bread" and donate to both parties.


* SLMR 2.1a * A seminar on Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago....
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She got him off on tangents where he ranted about already-debunked or now-debunked situations at least twice, which played well to her supporters.

I don't remember Trump repeating debunked claims, but debunking is a word that
means a lot of different things to lots of different people. For example, my friend Alan thinks that debunking means reading typed words on websites. Do yo
remember when nobody ever used the word "debunk?" It was like 9 years ago.

They didn't use that word as often, but it still got used some. IMHO, it
gets used a lot now because so many people get fake news from social media sites.

Trump mentioned that Virginia was pushing for infanticide, which was
already debunked, and repeatedly brought up the Springfield pet-eating
claim, which has since been debunked.

The Virginia claim the GOP likely knows is false but they keep bringing it up because it plays well to their audience. The Springfield claim, which initially appeared to have eye-witnesses, is probably something his team
should have researched better before the debate (assuming they even knew he planned to bring it up!).

The fact that she did better than Biden probably made a lot of her supporters think she did "good."

That's probably true. They are told what to believe, and the media has been telling everyone that she did good.

That is part of it, but I am sure her supporters heard stuff they liked,
too.


* SLMR 2.1a * The bold print giveth and the fine print taketh away.
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Him bad mouthing and suggesting the GOP vote against the bill was all over the news. It is not my fault if you don't watch it.

The news isn't a communications device for the president and congress. I don't
believe that Trump forced his opinion on anybody. And if he did, then there would have to be more to that story, like what violent thing did he threaten t
do to Mike Johnson if the legislation had passed? "You better listen to me boy." lol

When you have supporters like Trump does, you don't have to mention
violence. All you have to do is label Johnson a RINO for leading a vote
for something you don't like, and then let your supporters figure out what to do about it.

The more liberal posters here used to claim this or that word or phrase was
a "dog whistle." While I disagreed with most of what they said, and
disagreed that only Trump uses them, the term "RINO" is most definately one.

It didn't legitimize illegal crossings. It allowed for a cap on crossings at legal border crossings. The bill would have been a lot better than what we have now and didn't do anything to stop Republicans from passing something even more strict once Trump got into office.

The way I remember reading it was "a cap on ILLEGAL border crossings."

How do you cap illegal crossings when they don't even seem to know how,
where, or how many are crossing?

Seeing how liberal Democrats voted against it because it was "too strict"
tells me it was not a bad bill.

Not bad for us but bad for them, and that's ultimately bad for us too because we need a few of their votes.

I suspect these are the more leftist Democrats who would never vote with Republicans.

OTOH, If you are worried about needing Democrat votes, it might be
a *really good* idea to keep your promise and vote with them on an
*bipartisan* immigration bill that you said you would.

Since February, when the bill was killed, every single illegal that has got into the country is equally on the heads of Trump, Johnson, and all of their cronnies as is is on the head of Biden. It stopped being the "Biden border crisis" at that point.

I just don't see the Trump pressure.

They promised to vote for it. Trump got on social media and said it
was a bad bill and they should not do it. They got scared and didn't vote for it.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Ummm, trouble with grammar have I? Yes!" --Yoda
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The president gets more blame than they deserve, probably. However, wha
cause
electric bills to double in price? If it's because of oil prices, then the president's fault.

It is only the President's fault if his/her policies caused the price to go up.

What about us needing a president who will be our rock?

But isn't God your rock? Isn't needing a President to be your rock some
form of idolitry?

If it's because of labor disputes, then that's the
president's fault too.

No in most cases it is not.

He or she needs to be on top of those things instead of taking a beach vacation. They need to solve problems before they become problems - that's effective management.

I agree that is not a good look, but we live in a free market economy where
the government should normally keep their noses out of things. We don't
live in a Communist or Nazi dictatorship where the business and union
leaders get replaced, or executed, at the will of the government when those leaders do something our leader doesn't like.


* SLMR 2.1a * My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship
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I do remember a lot of non-supporters blaming Cheney for things that happened while Bush was President, and IIRC Gore also tried taking credit
for some things that happened while Clinton was President.

To a far lesser degree, I agree. I think my original statement (or intent, at least) was to say that I've never seen it this pronounced.

I would agree to that. I don't remember if it was quite this pronounced
when Gore ran, but I don't think it was as there were some things (like
Bill's daliances) that Gore wanted to distance himself from.

Harris has most certainly been trying to take credit for things she thinks are good, while distancing herself from things she thinks have not turned out good, that resulted from Biden's Presidency.

I admittedly have not been paying very close attention to her campaign, so I don't recall what those wins are that she's sharing credit for. (That's also partly because I don't think the administration really had any big wins in the
first place.)

I don't believe they've had too many, either.

If you accept credit, even if it is something you didn't really accomplish yourself, you open yourself up for blame, too.

Very fair assessment. After this conversation, I'll definitely be paying more attention to things like that.

I do agree that some things are probably being blamed on her that she had nothing to do with (like claims that she has made decisions to get us involved with Ukraine), but I also believe she/her supporters are taking/giving
credit for things that she also had little or nothing to do with.


* SLMR 2.1a * If all appears to go well, you missed something...
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Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.

Something easily verifiable and yet will be denied by the ardent supporters.

Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about it? A: Nothing.

On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassingly littl
to solve much of anything in quite a while.

+1.

Again, not defending Harris. I'm saying on a lot of this stuff, there's nothin
to defend. The primary role of the VP is not to pass legislation.

One place where the VP does have responsibility and that could be used
against them is in instances where they cast the Senate tie-breaker vote. I
am not aware of what, if any, bills that VP Harris has voted on.


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Part of this is inflation as well, which is an issue that infuriates me to no end to hear being tossed at the feet of the current administration. Quantitative Easing was Trump's big play in 2019 and 2020.

The result was pumping out something along the lines of a 40% increase of pape
money in circulation. That, combined with the already escalating GLOBAL inflation issue, means that Trump and the Fed should be holding the bag on the
current inflation issue. That this isn't a major point of discussion is disgusting.

My understanding is that the current administration did continue printing money, when they could have reversed the policy, so they are not innocent in this.


* SLMR 2.1a * STICK \'stik\ n. 1: A somewhat nonfunctional boomerang.
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Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.

Mike tried to make that same argument but I guess I'll have to say this: it's been debunked.

No it hasn't. I have provided links to where he persuaded Congressional Republicans to change their minds and kill the bill. I have seen no
links where a *legit*, non-social-media-talking-head, news source has provided information that he did not do so.

Not only that, but Trump *himself* repeatedly took credit for getting the
bill killed. If you are correct and he had nothing to do with it, then he
is a liar!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-takes-credit-at-rally-for-killing-
bipartisan-border-crackdown-bill-then-rails-about-border/ar-BB1hmzN0

"A pleased Donald Trump at a Las Vega campaign rally Saturday took credit for arm-twisting behind the scenes to convince Republicans to kill the bipartisan federal bill to crack down on border security.

"[...] It's a tactic that has sparked harsh criticism, even from Republicans.

"Trump provided no reason for opposing the 'monstrosity' of a bill in his Nevada speech.

"'I'll fight it all the way ... please blame it on me'"

Trump Brags He Delivered the Death Knell to Bipartisan Bill https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-brags-he-delivered-the-death-knell
-to-bipartisan-bill-it-s-dead/ar-BB1i3NhV

Trump brags about efforts to stymie border talks: "Please blame it on me" https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/27/trump-border-biden/

GOP senators seethe as Trump blows up delicate immigration compromise https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/politics/gop-senators-angry-trump-immigration- deal/index.html

"In recent weeks, Trump has been lobbying Republicans both in private conversations and in public statements on social media to oppose the border compromise being delicately hashed out in the Senate..."

Ex presidents don't control anything. Trump doesn't control
congress. He doesn't have "pull." If ex presidents controlled congress, which they don't, then what would the purpose of having a congress be?

He should not have, correct, but he does. All he has to do to ruin most Republican's future election chances, or worse, is to label them as "RINO" and his followers will take care of the rest.

Aside from *maybe* Obama, I have never witnessed a former President, or
anyone who is running for President, attempt to interfere with the current government like Trump has.


* SLMR 2.1a * Boss spelled backwards is "double SOB".
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That was also part of my fear, that the extra money was being used again me. Apparently my fears aren't as irrational as I thought.

Note that I said "probably" as I have no proof. There is a big gas and electric company on the West Coast that gets in trouble a lot but then seems to wiggle out of it, and it is a common belief that they are doing so by above-or-under-the-table donations.

If a company is really smart, they probably "butter both sides of the bread" and donate to both parties.

Good point. Yes, it sounds like a smart idea.

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I'm talking about undocumented migrants; people without background
checks. Not "immigrants." I don't know where the numbers come from
either, but they are often reported by the media and they range from 7
to 20 million, while Trump has suggested that Biden may have let in
closer to 40 million undocumented migrants.

That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, how can we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just making things up (which isn't above anyone, especially lately), or someone, somewhere, is gathering data and extrapolating numbers based on a combination of historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting of conjecture.

Also, this isn't about an "immigrant population," this is about the
number of foreigners who entered the USA without a visa while Biden was president.

"Illegal immigrants" equals "undocumented migrants." We used to call them "illegal aliens." Same people, different name.

I appreciate that but listen to yourself: illegal population? That is ridiculous. Think about it: 1) there hasn't been a census count since years before Biden opened the border 2) even if we did a census count yesterday, how many people are going to report it on paper that they are illegal immigrants? 3) there's no way to accurately measure the number
of illegal immigrants.

Okay, I'm listening to myself. My self says that there is a valid, rough approximation of the entire population of the country, including people who aren't here legally. My self also says that political statements that include numbers meant to incite fear and anger are grossly inaccurate.

The latest DHS report that I could quickly pull up lists "unauthorized immigrant population" (which, again, are the people we're both talking about) from 2018 to 2022.

That report also lists an approximate number of 11 million in 2022, with an annual entry estimate of just over 2 million. They do list the methodology for coming to those figures if you're interested.

My SyncTerm paste function isn't working (running the latest RC version), so I can't paste the direct link, but the report is available on the dhs.gov website.

All that aside, if, by your statement, we can't accurately measure it, how can anyone blame the current administration for not improving it?

This means: Joe wants the border open, he has the same handlers as
Kamala, so therefore Kamala wants the border open too.

Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.

Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not true as we'd like.

Mike tried to make that same argument but I guess I'll have to say this: it's been debunked. Ex presidents don't control anything. Trump doesn't control congress. He doesn't have "pull." If ex presidents controlled congress, which they don't, then what would the purpose of having a congress be?

I did address this in another post. At some point I would really like to find the article that quoted someone as receiving a phone call from Trump where he "asked" the congressman to shoot down the bill.

Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing ab A: Nothing.

On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassin little to solve much of anything in quite a while.

It's not just Democrats, there are no useful Republicans either. Not in congress at least.

This actually sparked a thought... If I set aside a little time later this week, I might pour a glass or two of scotch and see if I can compile a short list of passed legislation that actually solved a problem anyone cares about.

I'm certain that's going to be a short list. :)

RS

... Avoid arguments about the toilet seat... Use the sink.

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Hello Aaron,

I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.

All the prayers in the world will come to naught as the
American people have the last and final say.

Maybe some people need 4 more years of destruction. Maybe the Democrats are
doing that good of a job hiding everything from them.

Are you willing to die for Trump? One person in Butler, Pennsylvania
did. And I am *not* talking about the bonafide nutcase who took out a
piece of Trump's ear.

When Trump went down from the assassin's bullets on July 13, 2024,
he kept asking about his shoes. Why? Because his shoes had suddenly
come off his feet. And he did not know why.

And then one of the Secret Service agents came to his rescue,
reminding him who he was and his reasons as to why he was there.

You see, this was a renewal of Moses being called at the Burning
Bush on Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 3:5. I'll let you and Björn read the
passage so y'all will know what I am talking about. Anyway, this
is when Moses goes down before the Lord, and the Lord says, "Take
off your shoes, for the place you are on is holy ground."

IOW, prophetic voices are saying that God made that place in
Butler PA into holy ground for the purposes of His holy work.

Now who is that poor soul who lost his life on Trump's account?
And who are the kids he left behind? And also his wife who is now
a widow?

For Life,
Lee

--
Biden 2024 - Finisth The Job

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 01 Oct 2024, Aaron Thomas said the following...

It's hard to remember all that stuff, but it's easier to remember a narrative about Trump killing the bill as a campaign strategy. (Trying
to help you!)

I'm not convinced your primary motivation is in being helpful. :)

The core of the issue on my side is that I don't think immigration is a problem in the first place. Not for Obama, nor for Trump, nor for Biden. It's a completely fabricated issue, and I didn't place much importance on committing the specifics of that to memory.

Here's my direct question to you: if I go to the trouble of locating the article (which I'm quite sure I read), and it says that Trump asked any congressional member directly to kill the bill, will you then concede that Trump holds some influential control over congress?

My interpretation of your prior statements leads me to think the answer to that question is "no," which tells me I should spend my time doing something more enjoyable than scouring the internet for an article I really don't care about.

RS

PS: I care less about narratives. Especially the immigration one in the first place.

... I wasn't lying... I was just writing fiction with my mouth.

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Again, not defending Harris. I'm saying on a lot of this stuff, there's nothing to defend. The primary role of the VP is not to pass legislation.

One place where the VP does have responsibility and that could be used against them is in instances where they cast the Senate tie-breaker
vote. I am not aware of what, if any, bills that VP Harris has voted on.

Wife and I were just discussing this bit a couple days ago. Neither of us could think of anything she cast the tie-breaker vote on. (She's an ardent Democrat, so if there were something, I'm certain she'd be pounding her chest with it.) :)

RS

... I can't decide which pants to wear... smarty or fancy?

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Part of this is inflation as well, which is an issue that infuriates me end to hear being tossed at the feet of the current administration. Quantitative Easing was Trump's big play in 2019 and 2020.

The result was pumping out something along the lines of a 40% increase o pape
money in circulation. That, combined with the already escalating GLOBAL inflation issue, means that Trump and the Fed should be holding the bag the
current inflation issue. That this isn't a major point of discussion is disgusting.

My understanding is that the current administration did continue printing money, when they could have reversed the policy, so they are not
innocent in this.

The current administration's print order was primarily for the bank bailout, which might even be worse from a policy standpoint.

RS

... People say I act like I don't care. It's not an act.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
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Trump mentioned that Virginia was pushing for infanticide, which was already debunked, and repeatedly brought up the Springfield pet-eating claim, which has since been debunked.

How is it debunked? Didn't they agree that they were not going to
perform lifesaving treatment on abortion survivors, but that they would keep
it comfortable until it died? Technically that's not infanticide,
but it's still neglect, abuse, and homicide. And if that's what Trump is talking about, then I agree with him.

Trump mentioned that Virginia was pushing for infanticide, which was already debunked, and repeatedly brought up the Springfield pet-eating claim, which has since been debunked.

Debunked how? There were also reports of migrants killing livestock back in 2021 when Biden first ripped the border open. This doesn't mean that all the
migrants are doing it, but it could mean that it's happened before.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, how can
we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just making things up (which isn't above anyone, especially lately), or someone, somewhere, is gathering data and extrapolating numbers based on a combination of historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting of conjecture.

We can't take anyone's word for it that there are illegals lurking around, but just look at the clear evidence. For example, police recently arrested an illegal in my county who was wanted for 29 murders in Peru. I can't confirm that he really is an illegal immigrant, I can't confirm that he killed anybody in Peru, but the fact that a story about an illegal immigrant fugitive being found in my county ALMOST serves as proof that we really do have some illegals roaming around, and it ALMOST serves as proof that some of them are foreign fugitives.

Okay, I'm listening to myself. My self says that there is a valid, rough approximation of the entire population of the country, including people who aren't here legally. My self also says that political statements
that include numbers meant to incite fear and anger are grossly inaccurate.

I don't trust anyone's statistics or their news reports. I just lean one way or another when I start to see correlations.

And you're right about the media lying.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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I accidentally saved the message but there was more to the conversation:

The latest DHS report that I could quickly pull up lists "unauthorized immigrant population" (which, again, are the people we're both talking about) from 2018 to 2022.

That report also lists an approximate number of 11 million in 2022, with an annual entry estimate of just over 2 million. They do list the methodology for coming to those figures if you're interested.

What's more important is how to deport them all.

All that aside, if, by your statement, we can't accurately measure it,
how can anyone blame the current administration for not improving it?

There's correlating news stories, arrest records, and Biden border order reversals that prove with 99% certainty that there's an unprecedented border invasion in progress. If Trump was keeping them out, then the order reversals is what's bringing them in.

I did address this in another post. At some point I would really like to find the article that quoted someone as receiving a phone call from
Trump where he "asked" the congressman to shoot down the bill.

An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message death threats from Trump to the house GOP.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/201)

Are you willing to die for Trump? One person in Butler, Pennsylvania
did. And I am *not* talking about the bonafide nutcase who took out a piece of Trump's ear.

He didn't die for Trump. He died because of Democrat rhetoric.

You see, this was a renewal of Moses being called at the Burning
Bush on Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 3:5. I'll let you and Björn read the
passage so y'all will know what I am talking about. Anyway, this
is when Moses goes down before the Lord, and the Lord says, "Take
off your shoes, for the place you are on is holy ground."

I'm glad you agree with me about Trump being chosen by God.

Now who is that poor soul who lost his life on Trump's account?
And who are the kids he left behind? And also his wife who is now
a widow?

If Democrats weren't such a big, big, big failure, then the shooting victim wouldn't have been at the Trump rally. Nobody would care who who's president.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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The core of the issue on my side is that I don't think immigration is a problem in the first place. Not for Obama, nor for Trump, nor for Biden. It's a completely fabricated issue, and I didn't place much importance
on committing the specifics of that to memory.

Here's my direct question to you: if I go to the trouble of locating the article (which I'm quite sure I read), and it says that Trump asked any congressional member directly to kill the bill, will you then concede
that Trump holds some influential control over congress?

Articles can't prove anything, other than the fact that the article exists. I need to see Trump doing it in the act, on videotape, or on audio recording, or email or fax or text message.

My interpretation of your prior statements leads me to think the answer
to that question is "no," which tells me I should spend my time doing something more enjoyable than scouring the internet for an article I really don't care about.

Articles are a waste of time. BTW: Are you related to any Schads in New York State? I am close friends with several members of the Schad family from the Binghamton area.

PS: I care less about narratives. Especially the immigration one in the first place.

We're all being fed narratives, and they're tricking some of us into conflating narratives with facts.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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On 01 Oct 2024, Aaron Thomas said the following...

That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, how c we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just making thi

[...]

historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting of conjecture.

We can't take anyone's word for it that there are illegals lurking
around, but just look at the clear evidence. For example, police
recently arrested an illegal in my county who was wanted for 29 murders
in Peru. I can't confirm that he really is an illegal immigrant, I can't confirm that he killed anybody in Peru, but the fact that a story about
an illegal immigrant fugitive being found in my county ALMOST serves as proof that we really do have some illegals roaming around, and it ALMOST serves as proof that some of them are foreign fugitives.

I don't trust anyone's statistics or their news reports. I just lean one way or another when I start to see correlations.

I can't tell at this point if you're being sardonic or serious, and I'd rather not have to spend energy working that out.

RS

... People say I act like I don't care. It's not an act.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
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What's more important is how to deport them all.

If Trump had built the fantastic wall he promised when he was Grand Poobah, you wouldn't have to worry about deportation now.

It's his manufactured crisis to begin with.

Either we are big, bad, strong, amazing Americans who can use our #1 World's Greatest Dad-Country T-shirt powers to take care of these pesky illegals, or we're super weak, helpless, defenseless babies who are so scared of the incredibly dangerous, murderous stranger-folk that we have to declare it a national emergency and have Mr. Government Man protect us.

The messaging is ridiculous.

RS

... I wasn't lying... I was just writing fiction with my mouth.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
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Aaron Thomas wrote to Randall Schad <=-

It's hard to remember all that stuff, but it's easier to remember a narrative about Trump killing the bill as a campaign strategy. (Trying
to help you!)

And one of the big fallacies that the Ignorant Elitists here have is a belief that we are just as much mindless drones as they are.

They cannot understand the concept of thinking for yourself - mostly because they are completely unable to do it.


... Hey Santa, can I have a copy of your naughty girls list?
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/201)

That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just makin

[...]

historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting o conjecture.

We can't take anyone's word for it that there are illegals lurking around, but just look at the clear evidence. For example, police recently arrested an illegal in my county who was wanted for 29 murde in Peru. I can't confirm that he really is an illegal immigrant, I ca confirm that he killed anybody in Peru, but the fact that a story abo an illegal immigrant fugitive being found in my county ALMOST serves proof that we really do have some illegals roaming around, and it ALM serves as proof that some of them are foreign fugitives.

I don't trust anyone's statistics or their news reports. I just lean way or another when I start to see correlations.

I can't tell at this point if you're being sardonic or serious, and I'd rather not have to spend energy working that out.

I'm being serious. Not everyone trusts the media. It's a big mistake.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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My understanding is that the current administration did continue printing money, when they could have reversed the policy, so they are not
innocent in this.

The current administration's print order was primarily for the bank bailout, which might even be worse from a policy standpoint.

Agreed. In the long run, printing lots of money (for whatever reason) is
part of the recipe for inflation. Print too much and you can even cause runaway inflation.


* SLMR 2.1a * Ultimate office automation: networked coffee machines.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Trump mentioned that Virginia was pushing for infanticide, which was already debunked, and repeatedly brought up the Springfield pet-eating claim, which has since been debunked.

How is it debunked? Didn't they agree that they were not going to
perform lifesaving treatment on abortion survivors, but that they would keep it comfortable until it died? Technically that's not infanticide,
but it's still neglect, abuse, and homicide. And if that's what Trump is talking about, then I agree with him.

No, he was talking about babies who are not born viable there. That *could* include abortion survivors but, as they were not talking about allowing abortions up until birth and with infanticide being illegal, that is not
what was being discussed there.

To put it another way, if it was an abortion attempt, why would they need
to consult with the parent(s) to determine what to do next when they already know the parent(s) want to have the pregnancy terminated?

I asked this before but, if a birth is not viable (i.e. the kid will not
live no matter what you do), I am not sure what people who are supposedly
all about babies get so upset about wanting to keep a dying infant
comfortable.

Trump mentioned that Virginia was pushing for infanticide, which was already debunked, and repeatedly brought up the Springfield pet-eating claim, which has since been debunked.

Debunked how? There were also reports of migrants killing livestock back in 2021 when Biden first ripped the border open. This doesn't mean that all the migrants are doing it, but it could mean that it's happened before.

Springfield authorities, including their mayor and law enforcement, have
stated that there is no evidence of pet-eating in Springfield. I posted a
link here about it where the mayor pointed out other *REAL* problems they
were having with strained resources... schools, police, housing, traffic violations.

The alleged examples used in Internet memes... the cat eater who is
actually a US citizen who doesn't live in Springfield, and the goose killer which also didn't happen in Springfield... have been debunked by local newspapers. I posted such a link to an article from the Canton newspaper
that said straight up the person who killed the cat was a known citizen
with mental issues, and the incident happened in their town, not
Springfield.

Now, the migrants killing livestock on the border has been reported before,
but that is *NOT* the claim that Trump made during the debate. He
repeatedly mentioned Springfield, Ohio, and the Haitians.


* SLMR 2.1a * Software Independent: Won't work with ANY software.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I did address this in another post. At some point I would really like to find the article that quoted someone as receiving a phone call from Trump where he "asked" the congressman to shoot down the bill.

An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message death threats from Trump to the house GOP.

When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough
for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to us!


* SLMR 2.1a * I idiot-proof my programs, but along comes a bigger idiot
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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How is it debunked? Didn't they agree that they were not going to perform lifesaving treatment on abortion survivors, but that they would it comfortable until it died? Technically that's not infanticide,
but it's still neglect, abuse, and homicide. And if that's what Trump is talking about, then I agree with him.

No, he was talking about babies who are not born viable there. That

Babies that are not viable are babies that are not expected to survive, so they're not going to provide lifesaving treatment to them. To me, that's homicide. That's not what they were discussing, but I'm glad it was brought

Trump might have stretched the truth by calling it "infanticide" when in reality it's just "homicide."

I asked this before but, if a birth is not viable (i.e. the kid will not live no matter what you do), I am not sure what people who are supposedly all about babies get so upset about wanting to keep a dying infant comfortable.

We want more to be done to help the infant instead of just giving up. When a patient or their family feels that the doctor at one hospital isn't trying hard enough to save their loved one, many people seek a 2nd opinion and/or a transfer to a different hospital. Also, if the abortion method performed was the cause of the live birth of a non viable fetus, then that method of abortion needs to be banned.

The alleged examples used in Internet memes... the cat eater who is actually a US citizen who doesn't live in Springfield, and the goose killer which also didn't happen in Springfield... have been debunked by local newspapers. I posted such a link to an article from the Canton newspaper that said straight up the person who killed the cat was a
known citizen with mental issues, and the incident happened in their
town, not Springfield.

Trump might have chose a bad example to relate to dealing with migrants, but like you said, there are a lot of other migrant-related issues that can be tackled by bringing back Trump's border policies.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message threats from Trump to the house GOP.

When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to us!

Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk to members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress members to vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or did he threaten to ruin their career?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk
to members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress members to vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or
did he threaten to ruin their career?

That's what the Democrats do.

But this whole "it's Trump's fault!" is just another page from the Elitist Playbook: All our failures are someone else's fault.


... Professionals built the Titanic, amateurs built the ark.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

Hello Aaron,

[..]

That report also lists an approximate number of 11 million in 2022,
with an annual entry estimate of just over 2 million. They do list
the methodology for coming to those figures if you're interested.

What's more important is how to deport them all.

Oh goodie! We get to be just like Nazi Germany in the good ol' days!
Sure, FDR rounded up Japanese and Japanese Americans during WWII, but
we can do better! Deport them all! From wherever they come from! Not
just from Japan, but also from Mexico! And China! And Iran! And North
Korea! And from Canada! And from every creek and cranny they try to
hide themselves! Deportation camps for everybody! And if we make a
few mistakes along the way, so what? Those who get deported do not
belong here anyyway ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Biden 2024 - Finisth The Job

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Aaron,

Are you willing to die for Trump? One person in Butler, Pennsylvania
did. And I am *not* talking about the bonafide nutcase who took out a
piece of Trump's ear.

He didn't die for Trump.

Yes, he did. Trump said it himself, calling it "Divine intervention."

He died because of Democrat rhetoric.

The term "Divine Intervention" means somebody had to die for Trump.
Had nobody been stricken dead, Trump would no longer be with us.
So a good man had to die, leaving behind a wife and two daughters,
for you to get your jollies watching an orange clown on stage.

You see, this was a renewal of Moses being called at the Burning
Bush on Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 3:5. I'll let you and Björn read the
passage so y'all will know what I am talking about. Anyway, this
is when Moses goes down before the Lord, and the Lord says, "Take
off your shoes, for the place you are on is holy ground."

I'm glad you agree with me about Trump being chosen by God.

And then God showed him what a fool he was to believe a burning
bush could talk. I'll let you read the rest of the story so as not
to spoil all your fun.

Now who is that poor soul who lost his life on Trump's account?
And who are the kids he left behind? And also his wife who is now
a widow?

If Democrats weren't such a big, big, big failure, then the shooting victim
wouldn't have been at the Trump rally.

Earth calling Aaron. Earth calling Aaron. Trump did not blame
Democrats or Republicans or even Reptilians for what happenened.
He called it "Divine Intervention" - thus making God a killer.

Nobody would care who who's president.

God is a cold-blooded killer, so you gotta believe. Or else.
Is that the Trump mantra?

Good thing his Holy Zapper does not work on me ...

For Life,
Lee

--
You can tell Monopoly is an old game because there's a luxury tax and rich people can go to jail.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Babies that are not viable are babies that are not expected to survive, so they're not going to provide lifesaving treatment to them. To me, that's homicide. That's not what they were discussing, but I'm glad it was brought

That is not what he said.

We want more to be done to help the infant instead of just giving up. When a patient or their family feels that the doctor at one hospital isn't trying har
enough to save their loved one, many people seek a 2nd opinion and/or a transfer to a different hospital. Also, if the abortion method performed was the cause of the live birth of a non viable fetus, then that method of abortio
needs to be banned.

Which is why they discuss it with the parents before doing anything.

Do you think taking a dying adult off life support is also murder, because
that is what this is, just with a baby instead of an adult.

I tire of this discussion as it is obvious it is going to either continue down the same path of no matter what evidence is provided, or get resolved only to pop back up the next time Trump or Vance or some other MAGA mouthpiece re-presents it as something that really happened.

The alleged examples used in Internet memes... the cat eater who is actually a US citizen who doesn't live in Springfield, and the goose killer which also didn't happen in Springfield... have been debunked by local newspapers. I posted such a link to an article from the Canton newspaper that said straight up the person who killed the cat was a known citizen with mental issues, and the incident happened in their town, not Springfield.

Trump might have chose a bad example to relate to dealing with migrants, but like you said, there are a lot of other migrant-related issues that can be tackled by bringing back Trump's border policies.

Yes.


* SLMR 2.1a * Maybe I should cut the power before I-- ZZZAAPPOWWWWWW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message
threats from Trump to the house GOP.

When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough
for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to us!

Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk to members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress members t
vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or did he threaten to
ruin their career?

Trump bragged at a rally that he was the one responsible for killing the
bill. I posted links to that the other day.

Still sounds like you are calling Trump a liar.


* SLMR 2.1a * Repartee: An insult wearing a suit and tie.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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He didn't die for Trump.

Yes, he did. Trump said it himself, calling it "Divine intervention."

It's not Trump's choice to make.

The term "Divine Intervention" means somebody had to die for Trump.
Had nobody been stricken dead, Trump would no longer be with us.
So a good man had to die, leaving behind a wife and two daughters,
for you to get your jollies watching an orange clown on stage.

Is this going to stop you from going to concerts?

Earth calling Aaron. Earth calling Aaron. Trump did not blame
Democrats or Republicans or even Reptilians for what happenened.
He called it "Divine Intervention" - thus making God a killer.

I get what you're saying now. Trump says God saved him, but under that logic, God didn't save the other man. However, that other man is a hero who saved
his family and Trump, and he's also a hero for attending Trump rallies.

God is a cold-blooded killer, so you gotta believe. Or else.
Is that the Trump mantra?

But I don't think you understand that the awaken don't adhere strictly to anyone's guidelines. We love Trump, but we'll disagree with him on certain things.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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Do you think taking a dying adult off life support is also murder,
because that is what this is, just with a baby instead of an adult.

I tire of this discussion as it is obvious it is going to either
continue down the same path of no matter what evidence is provided, or
get resolved only to pop back up the next time Trump or Vance or some other MAGA mouthpiece re-presents it as something that really happened.

Same here, but for different reasons. Everyone might as well just keep their abortion to themselves ;)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough
for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to u

Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress mem t
vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or did he threa to
ruin their career?

Trump bragged at a rally that he was the one responsible for killing the bill. I posted links to that the other day.

Still sounds like you are calling Trump a liar.

He can take the credit for it all he wants, but it's the house members who made a mistake if they chose allegiance to Trump over their constituents.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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Hello Aaron,

He didn't die for Trump.

Yes, he did. Trump said it himself, calling it "Divine LL>intervention."

It's not Trump's choice to make.

Trump said it. His words, not mine. He asked for it, he got it.

The term "Divine Intervention" means somebody had to die for Trump.
Had nobody been stricken dead, Trump would no longer be with us.
So a good man had to die, leaving behind a wife and two daughters,
for you to get your jollies watching an orange clown on stage.

Is this going to stop you from going to concerts?

Nobody deserves a bullet to the head. But that is what happened
to one poor soul who attended a Trump concert in Butler, PA.

Earth calling Aaron. Earth calling Aaron. Trump did not blame
Democrats or Republicans or even Reptilians for what happenened.
He called it "Divine Intervention" - thus making God a killer.

I get what you're saying now. Trump says God saved him, but under that logic, God didn't save the other man. However, that other man is a hero who
saved
his family and Trump, and he's also a hero for attending Trump rallies.

God killed an innocent person because Trump asked him to.
Is that the kind of God you want to worship? A cold-blooded
murderer? That is almost as bad as worshipping the Devil
himself.

God is a cold-blooded killer, so you gotta believe. Or else.
Is that the Trump mantra?

But I don't think you understand that the awaken don't adhere strictly to anyone's guidelines.

A God that has no guidelines as to what to believe? My, my.
That's a new one. Tell me, please, what exactly does Trump believe
in? A God that let's you do whatever you want? With no concept of
good or wrong?

This Anything_Goes God. Where can I find Him/Her/It? Does such
a God even exist? Please tell ...

We love Trump, but we'll disagree with him on certain things.

Trump is your Anything_Goes God? Oh, my ...

For Life,
Lee

--
The first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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But I don't think you understand that the awaken don't adhere strictl anyone's guidelines.

A God that has no guidelines as to what to believe? My, my.
That's a new one. Tell me, please, what exactly does Trump believe
in? A God that let's you do whatever you want? With no concept of
good or wrong?

I'm not God, I'm just a fan. And I don't know what Trump's spiritual beliefs are because that's an unhealthy curiosity. You should pay less attention to celebrities because they try to push us away from God and we can't let that happen.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
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