Let me remember that during WWII Sweden allowed Nazis to transfer troops across its territory to fight in Russia. No one elected anyone to stop them.

Why would anyone stop them? Sweden was expected to be neutral.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Ghil,

NATO will not fight a war for Ukraine.

Measuring the size of penises is never a good idea...that goes both ways.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Björn!

Friday December 10 2021 00:14, you wrote to me:

Let me remember that during WWII Sweden allowed Nazis to transfer
troops across its territory to fight in Russia. No one elected
anyone to stop them.

Why would anyone stop them? Sweden was expected to be neutral.

"It's like: I am ready to give ride to a maniac who is going to kill and rape my neighbor. I am so proud of me."

Sounds very neutral?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Let me remember that during WWII Sweden allowed Nazis to transfer
troops across its territory to fight in Russia. No one elected anyone BF>DP> to stop them.

Why would anyone stop them? Sweden was expected to be neutral.

Neutrality, in my book, is explained different.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

"It's like: I am ready to give ride to a maniac who is going to kill and rape my neighbor. I am so proud of me."

Sounds very neutral?

What two opposing sides would that be neutral to?




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Why would anyone stop them? Sweden was expected to be neutral.

Neutrality, in my book, is explained different.

So, in your book, how should a neutral country act in that infamous situation? Wouldn't not allowing the transport be an obvious way to demonstrate siding with the Allies against the Axis?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Why would anyone stop them? Sweden was expected to be neutral.

Neutrality, in my book, is explained different.

So, in your book, how should a neutral country act in that infamous situation? Wouldn't not allowing the transport be an obvious way to demonstrate siding with the Allies against the Axis?

A double negative ... oh dear ... ;-)

There's an obvious difference between 'neutrality' and 'staying out of the war' ... Sweden was confronted with a dilema either comply with the Nazi request or become at least partially occupied ... a situation which it tries itself to talk out of ever since.

And we haven't yet touched upon collaboration ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

a situation which it tries itself to talk out of ever since.

Well, we posed no restrictions on who could use our public transportations. How does that differ from e.g. allowing black people from using white peoples transportation?

Maybe you don't know that Sweden also allowed US bombers to not only pass Swedish airspace, but even were taken care of when they (more than 160 of them) were forced to make an emergency landing here after they'd been crippled by German air defence, and some 1400 US airmen were taken care of.

By the rules of Sweden's neutrality, the planes and their crews were interned. Early in the war this was not a problem as Allied and German personnel were generally returned on a one-for-one basis. But as the war progressed, a far greater number of Allied planes and crews ended up in Sweden, and they were forced to remain there.

..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Wouldn't not allowing the transport be an obvious way to
demonstrate siding with the Allies against the Axis?

A double negative ... oh dear ... ;-)

I may seem so at a casual glance, but actually not. The negatives are at two different levels.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

a situation which it tries itself to talk out of ever since.

Well, we posed no restrictions on who could use our public
transportations. How does that differ from e.g. allowing black people
from using white peoples transportation?

As you correctly quoted above, a situation which Sweden has been trying to talk itself out of for the past 76.5 years.

Sweden provided the locomotives, the cars and the personel that were used to transport those Nazi troops. Sweden also provided the cargo ships which transported Swedish ore for the German ball-bearing factories after it stopped selling full-ready high-quality ball-bearings to the Nazis ... under mounting Allied pressure. The idea was to prevent Allied submarines from attacking 'neutral' ships ... this did not work well from some point on.

War is good for business, it is now and it was then as well. Sweden made a good buck from it.

Maybe you don't know that Sweden also allowed US bombers to not only
pass Swedish airspace, but even were taken care of when they (more than
160 of them) were forced to make an emergency landing here after they'd been crippled by German air defence, and some 1400 US airmen were taken care of.

That is common knowledge and universal practice... the crew of the Graf Spee were also detained in Argentina for the remainder of the war. The US seized several Italian and German vessels in US ports and the Panama Canal, even if the crews were not enemy combatants they were interned even before war was declared between the US and Axis powers ... the crew of the Conte Biancamano was sent to Missoula Montana for internment, the camp is still there ... read a lot about those internments... in the 1970/80s talked to many of the surviving internees (many of whom became US citizens) .... Interning people under those circumstances is nothing else but applying the Geneva Convention. Not an exceptional feat by Sweden.

By the rules of Sweden's neutrality, the planes and their crews were interned. Early in the war this was not a problem as Allied and German personnel were generally returned on a one-for-one basis. But as the war progressed, a far greater number of Allied planes and crews ended up in Sweden, and they were forced to remain there.

It does not explain why Sweden did not intern the slightly more than 2 million Nazi soldiers transiting through its territory .... they would also fall under the Swedish neutrality clauses ... these soldiers should have been interned until the end of the war as well.

Probably this would have advanced the end of hostilities in the European theatre by many months ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Sweden also provided the cargo ships which transported Swedish ore for
the German ball-bearing factories

40% of the Swedish ore went to Germany, 60% went to England. Yes, not exactly neutral, but very close.

How much of the Belgian ore went to England?

And, speaking of neutrality, Switzerland also claimed to be neutral, look what happened to all the Nazi "spoils of war" that still is unaccounted for in Swiss banks. How does that compare to the Swedish transit allowance?

And no, I don't think that allowing the Germans to send soldiers through Sweden to Russia prolonged the war. On the contrary, haven't we all agreed that the eastern front was what eventually caused the war to end? If all those German soldiers hadn't been sent to Russia, they may have been left on the western front...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Éạ««íαạ« »α¿óÑΓßΓóπε!

Putin can get everything he wants, without ever firing a shot, or
having new sanctions placed on Russia. So why go to war when you
don't have to?

Ukraine plans to take back Donbass in january with this president.
There are 150.000 troops at the border with the unrecognised
republics. They will try to reestablish the territorial integrity.
It's their right. Do you think Putin will just watch this?

Putin is a military intelligence officer. He will never start a war. He can only pretend that there is no war, and again send troops so that "no one can see."

--
éß∩τÑ߬¿σ í½áú. ê߬αÑ¡¡Ñ éáΦ, Vladimir Fyodorov, ø߬óá⌐α.
... Åα«»á½á ¡ÑßπΘá∩? çỽáΓ¿ΓÑ ¡á½«ú¿!
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Esquire Station (2:6035/3.2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Bj÷rn!

Saturday December 11 2021 07:57, you wrote to me:

"It's like: I am ready to give ride to a maniac who is going to
kill and rape my neighbor. I am so proud of me."

Sounds very neutral?

What two opposing sides would that be neutral to?

Neutral in our universe means "I am too weak to defend myself", nothing else.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Bjorn,

40% of the Swedish ore went to Germany, 60% went to England. Yes, not exactly neutral, but very close.

I cannot find a reference about 60% of Swedish ore production during WW2 going to England. Unless you can provide that I won't believe it. The port of Narvik was controled by the Nazis and they would allow ore shipments to England? How plausible is that?

How much of the Belgian ore went to England?

Roy Witt passed away 6+ years ago.

And, speaking of neutrality, Switzerland also claimed to be neutral,...

Switzerland is always on the side of the money, they were the clearing house for Nazi payments to for example IBM for their tabulating machines which made the trains run, also the ones to Auschwitz, and because of the census in the 1930s made it easy to track down every jew. For that machines were needed, parts and computer punched cards of which the only quality reliable source was in the US. All that was shipped with neutral vessels to Sweden ... Sweden was paid well.

War is good for business, then and also now.

look what happened to all the Nazi "spoils of war" that still is unaccounted for in Swiss banks. How does that compare to the Swedish transit allowance?

... Roy Witt ...

And no, I don't think that allowing the Germans to send soldiers
through Sweden to Russia prolonged the war. On the contrary, haven't we
all agreed that the eastern front was what eventually caused the war to end? If all those German soldiers hadn't been sent to Russia, they may
have been left on the western front...

The shipments of soldiers were a non-event ... slightly over a million were shipped to Norway, and slightly over a million were shipped back. Nevertheless, every German soldier should have been interned alongside those 1400 Allied pilots and air crew.

Had those 2 million be taken out of the equation the war in the European theatre would have been vastly different. It equals 56 divisions.

Forget it Bjorn, Sweden is already 76 years trying to talk itself out of this...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Forget it Bjorn, Sweden is already 76 years trying to talk itself out of this...

Björn to you, please.

But yes, lets forget it. It all happened long before I was even a horny glimpse in my fathers eye, and I sincerely believe in non-patriotism (after religion the second major reason for wars).

All I can say is that I applaud every possible way to stay out of the conflicts that kings and presidents have between them, convincing gullible citizens to go out and fight it out for them.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

SO? Most of the people in southern Texas speak Spanish as their native language, and are aligned with Hispanic culture. Does that imply that Mexico should have the right to annex southern Texas??

As Texas was stolen by military force ... Yes, Mexico has all the rights ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Björn to you, please.

I would love to comply but no idea how I must produce this.

But yes, lets forget it. It all happened long before I was even a
horny glimpse in my fathers eye, and I sincerely believe in
non-patriotism (after religion the second major reason for wars).

100%.

Current generations should not be burdened with guilt about what happened generations ago. Today's generation Germans are citizens of a respected neighbour state, today's generation Belgians are horified about what happened in the Congo in their name and there are a tonne of similar comparisons (although that's a linguistic abomination).

And I do think that the wealth of our royal family which was aquired by slave-labour in the Congo, should be confiscated and returned to that country as develepment aid, not as a gift to Tshisekedi.

All I can say is that I applaud every possible way to stay out of the conflicts that kings and presidents have between them, convincing
gullible citizens to go out and fight it out for them.

100%.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

On 12/12/2021 00:15, Dale Shipp : Lee Lofaso wrote:

 LL>> Most of the people in that region speak Russian as their native
 LL>> language, and culturally align themselves as such.

SO?  Most of the people in southern Texas speak Spanish as their native language, and are aligned with Hispanic culture.  Does that imply that Mexico should have the right to annex southern Texas??

Isn't democracy about what the people want?


--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Bucca, Qld (3:640/305)

Hello, Stas!

Crimea seceded from Ukraine in full compliance with Ukrainian and international law.

From the perspective of international law Crimea still belongs to Ukraine. And Russia used military force to take control of the peninsula and to force Ukrainian troops not to intervene in the process of secession.

Ghil.
---
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** ÄΓóÑΓ ¡á ß««íΘÑ¡¿Ñ ¿º _Carbon.Mail (Carbon.Mail).

Hi, Ghil!

15 ñѬ 21 04:53, Ghil Zvidgzul -> Stas Mishchenkov:

From the perspective of international law Crimea still belongs to
Ukraine.

Crimea was an autonomous republic with a corresponding right of self-determination, and it used one. What's wrong? Tell me what specific law has been broken?

And Russia used military force to take control of the peninsula and to force Ukrainian troops not to intervene in the process of secession.

This is just a dirty lie! A bull shit, in other words.

Have nice nights.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- ÉÑτ∞ íδóáÑΓ í½ÑßΓ∩ΘÑ⌐ ¿½¿ ß ¼áΓ«óδ¼ »«¬αδΓ¿Ñ¼.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

*** ÄΓóÑΓ ¡á ß««íΘÑ¡¿Ñ ¿º _Carbon.Mail (Carbon.Mail).

Hi, Ghil!

15 ñѬ 21 04:53, Ghil Zvidgzul -> Stas Mishchenkov:

And Russia used military force to take control of the peninsula and to force Ukrainian troops not to intervene in the process of secession.

And these "heroes" rushed in united ranks to join the Russian army. ;)

Have nice nights.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- ìáßΓα«Ñ¡¿Ñ í佫 ¡áßΓ«½∞¬« σαÑ¡«óδ¼, τΓ« ñáªÑ »ÑτÑ¡∞ »αÑñ½«ª¿½á óδ»¿Γ∞.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hello, Stas!

From the perspective of international law Crimea still belongs to
Ukraine.

Crimea was an autonomous republic with a corresponding right of self-determination, and it used one. What's wrong? Tell me what
specific law has been broken?

The UN Charter, all bilateral international treaties concluded between Russia and Ukraine were violated.
And yes, Putin admited he sent troops to Crimea.

Ghil.
---
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

And yes, Putin admited he sent troops to Crimea.

So, he also has relatives in the Netherlands?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 5 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ghil!

15 ñѬ 21 16:19, Ghil Zvidgzul -> Stas Mishchenkov:

Crimea was an autonomous republic with a corresponding right of

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

self-determination, and it used one. What's wrong? Tell me what

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

specific law has been broken?

The UN Charter, all bilateral international treaties concluded between Russia and Ukraine were violated.

How does the withdrawal of Crimea from Ukraine violate its treaties with Russia?

And yes, Putin admited he sent troops to Crimea.

;)

Have nice nights.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- æΓδñ¡« íδóáÑΓ Γ«½∞¬« ºá Γ«, τΓ« »«¼¡¿Φ∞. ǽ¬«ú«½∞.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

Hi, David!

17 ñѬ 21 06:10, David Drummond -> Lee Lofaso:

And the peoples of Crimea chose to rescind that and return to Russian administration.

And I, as a native of Crimea, can confirm with full responsibility that everyone who could come - really voted and even those who found it difficult to walk - came and voted to secede from Ukraine.

Have nice nights.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- èáªñδ⌐ αẠíπσá⌐ ¬á¬ »«ß½Ññ¡¿⌐. Å«Γ«¼π τΓ« «ñ¡áªñδ Γᬠ¿ íπñÑΓ.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)

On 17/12/2021 18:22, Stas Mishchenkov : David Drummond wrote:

Hi, David!

17 дек 21 06:10, David Drummond -> Lee Lofaso:

 DD>> And the peoples of Crimea chose to rescind that and return to Russian
 DD>> administration.

And I, as a native of Crimea, can confirm with full responsibility that everyone who could come - really voted and even those who found it difficult to walk - came and voted to secede from Ukraine.

In Australia it is compulsory to vote. Failure without a good explanation attracts a fine.

In the over 40 years I have lived here I have never voted - but then, I am not a citizen and have no voting rights.

However, at least in Australia, it matters not which way one votes, the country still gets the same shitty politicians.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Somewhere, Qld (3:640/305)

David,

In Australia it is compulsory to vote. Failure without a good
explanation attracts a fine.

I tell people that if you don't vote, you don't have a right to bitch
and complain about the outcome. I do my civic duty, and vote...even if
I have to "hold my nose" (they're scraping the bottom of the barrel in
most cases).

In the over 40 years I have lived here I have never voted - but then, I
am not a citizen and have no voting rights.

That sums it up.

However, at least in Australia, it matters not which way one votes, the country still gets the same shitty politicians.

When Bill Clinton was first elected US President in 1992, he did his
victory speech at the Old State House (originally Arkansas' capitol,
but still in Little Rock). Needless to say, media organizations from
around the world were in central Arkansas for the event.

Well, the media from Japan always have a problem with the American
English dialect...and it sounds like they're constantly "rolling their
R's". So, with their accent, the phrase "the great American election"
sounded like "the great American erection" (with the rolling R's).

Upon hearing that, I thought "That sounds right...for whoever we vote
for, we're going to get screwed".

Daryl

... Lead me not into temptation -- I'll find my own way.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Hello, Stas!

You have the right not to love Putin and the whole of Russia, but do
not talk nonsense about the withdrawal of Crimea from Ukraine. Not any
of "Putin's soldiers" were not at the referendum. Police and civilian volunteers guarded the order.

If you spend 2 minutes to listen to what Putin said:
"Behind the self-defense forces of Crimea stood our servicemen". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ0CjshbsQc
And the Russian State TV made a whole documentary ( Crimea. The Way Home https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8nMhCMphYU ) where Putin admits that the whole thing was a russian special operation and that he had taken personal charge of Crimean annexation and that in case of "unfavorable scenario on the peninsula" Russia could have placed its nuclear weapons on combat readiness: https://ria.ru/20150315/1052668652.html

The ukrainian and international law was broken because this anexation was made without the approval of ukrainian side. If any region of Ukraine would leave then the referendum must be organized in all regions. All documents signed before between Russia and Ukraine confirmed Crimea as part of Ukraine. Before 2014 Russia didn't have territorial claims and then...

Ghil.
---
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

If you spend 2 minutes to listen to what Putin said:

There are at present a number of rogue nations in the world ... China, North Korea, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Afghanistan, Belarus ... Russia ...

The trend was curbed in the USA last January 6th as that was one of our best chances to have a third world war with a continued Trump regime.

Russia became a rogue nation, not because of Putin, but because of the money behind Putin, mainly energy-money ... before it became such an energy-provider it was a joke. Now the pendulum swings to the complete opposite.

Russia needs a decent, unmanipulated election where opposition is not thrown into jail from the moment they hit the streets. Besides, I think types of government where so much power is in the hand of a single person is wrong ... Better is the Belgian system where you will die from boredom watching parliament in action ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Better is the Belgian system where you will die from boredom watching parliament in action ...

I also think that Belgium still holds the world record for time without a government, almost two years, right?

The main advantage without a government for a couple of years is that we don't get all the new laws, one more stupid than the other, all because lawmakers want to make a statement...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello, Ward!

Russia needs a decent, unmanipulated election where opposition is not thrown into jail from the moment they hit the streets. Besides, I
think types of government where so much power is in the hand of a
single person is wrong ... Better is the Belgian system where you will
die from boredom watching parliament in action ...

Just out of curiosity: is there any chance that Belgium could be partitioned and Flanders could join the Netherlands and Wallonia could join France (because of the linguistic division)?

Ghil.
---
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello Ghil,

On Sunday December 19 2021 10:44, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Just out of curiosity: is there any chance that Belgium could be partitioned and Flanders could join the Netherlands and Wallonia could join France (because of the linguistic division)?

I say this is unlikely to happen. Belgium secceeded from The Netherlands in 1830. I doubt there is a majority in either The Netherlands or Flanders that wants to undo that secession.

An exepriment on a much smaller scale, merging Fidonet R28 en R29 failed.

I do not know about Wallonia and France...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Better is the Belgian system where you will die from boredom
watching parliament in action ...

I also think that Belgium still holds the world record for time
without a government, almost two years, right?

541 days .... and you know what? During that period the sun came up a whopping 541 times ... they worked with budgetary 1/12ths of the previous year and thereby were unable to do stupid things...

The main advantage without a government for a couple of years is that
we don't get all the new laws, one more stupid than the other, all
because lawmakers want to make a statement...

The only thing they could deal with is "current affairs" ... whatever was already on the agenda.

BTW, try googling " sjoemelpoedel " ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Ghil,

Just out of curiosity: is there any chance that Belgium could be partitioned and Flanders could join the Netherlands and Wallonia could
join France (because of the linguistic division)?

Technically "yes" ... there's always a chance. Is there a chance I will win the Euromillions jackpot? Of course there's a chance ...

A union between the Netherlands and Flanders has been talked about for years. It would make a lot of sense ... economic, financial ... people from the Netherlands would finally learn proper Dutch ... 8-)

Walloonia is another thing, France does not really want them ... maybe Putin could rescue them.

Then there's also the Brussels region which is independant from Flanders as well as from Walloonia. What to do with them? They have 'Manneken Pis' ...

And let's not forget the German speaking East-Kantons ... what to do with them?

I think the real problem is the royal household, the king and his family, a 100% useless institution. It is only kept in existence through the discord of the different regions. Once the monarchy is disbanded the country would collapse ... Flanders forms an alliance with the Netherlands. Putin rescues Walloonia and requests NATO-membership for Russia as well as privileged status within the EU, Brussels will be taken-over by the Disney corporation and the East-Kantons will stay very very very quiet because they like their situation ... close to Germany for trading, close to Luxembourg for cheap fuel ...

Does this reply your question adequately?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Michiel,

Of course I need to reply ...

I say this is unlikely to happen. Belgium secceeded from The Netherlands
in 1830. I doubt there is a majority in either The Netherlands or
Flanders that wants to undo that secession.

1) Belgium did not secede ... it kicked the Netherlands out after conclusive military action ...

2) The subject has recently been tabled again and I think we're about 6% away from such a majority. Politics is a strange thing. But the royal family will use its influence to stop that and perpetuate their situation. Part of the reason the negotiations took that long and we now have a pharce of a government.

An exepriment on a much smaller scale, merging Fidonet R28 en R29 failed.

That's a matter of interpretation ... from my perspective it worked very well from the first day on August 13 2004, brokered by RC28 Jan Vermeulen until it collapsed under your guidance Oct.14 2017. Jan was a man with vision and perception.

R29's inclusion in R28 worked flawlessly under Jan Vermeulen for 3 years, for 4 years under Johan Zwiekhorst and for 6 years under yourself until you decided to start interfering in the N292-segment up to the point where the then NC292 declared it was impossible to work with you as an RC. A poll was held and it was unanymous to pull out of R28.

Stuff you did was manually editing segments because you didn't like them.

You also wanted to disband the whole net-292 and insert it into 280 with complete new numbering as per yopur defiinition of "true merging" meaning "change everything" for the remaining sysops at the time.

On top of that you wanted to scrap my 2:292/854-number which through my ZC-status handles hundreds of links and tasks. You were going to cause serious problems for me but also for every other sysop linking here. You were well aware and waved it away as 'eat the sour apply' ... that's in serious contrast of your sometimes use of the expression "smooth operation of the network" and your advocacy for the Fidoweb connection-method where a node could be serviced always as long as the netnumber over the whole network would be unique.

When Jan Vermeulen resigned and was about to drop away he suggested not to appoint you as RC28 because you would destroy the set-up, so I appointed Johan Zwiekhorst which made you really pissy ... When to my surprise Johan left, the region elected you and after some years Jan Vermeulen's prophecy materialised ... you wrecked the unified region for no other reason because you figured you could.

This whole story is indexed in archives somewhere ...

I'm pretty certain with another RC28 such as Kees Van Eeten, the merge could be picked-up again.

Merging regions can work ... R28/R29 did prove that and R20, R21, R22 and R23 are proving that every day.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

BTW, try googling " sjoemelpoedel " ...

I tried, but only ended up at sites full of ads, chatter and nothing much info. Was it some kind of kind of charity scandal?



..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

BTW, try googling " sjoemelpoedel " ...

I tried, but only ended up at sites full of ads, chatter and nothing
much info. Was it some kind of kind of charity scandal?

Well, the 'sjoemelpoedel" is a Flemish MP by the name of "Sihame El Kaouakibi" who managed to forge invoices for hundreds of thousands of Euro and falsely get government subsidies running into the millions.

As she is an MP she is a tad untouchable but doesn't dare anymore to show up in parliament. Every month she sends-in a docter's note claiming she is unfit to work and as a result she keeps on collecting 6.000 Euro a month.

When I fire up Goole Traslate it tells me that "sjoemelpoedel" translates into "cheating poodle".

OK ... now look at the lady's photo and remember "cheating poodle".

8-)

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Alexander,

It's life -- old people think slower and became absent-minded. And, besides, wisdom came, which tells that chess now is foolish way of time spending. ;-)

Depends. I play a decent game of chess ... at age 11 I beat my dad who had an international ranking ... he never recovered from that (claiming I was so lowly ranked that I could never beat him though the board said 'check mate')

Then 2 years ago my 9 yr old granddaughter beat me and I smiled, I did not let her beat me, she just did it ... and I knew she was going to be OK being able to master that and think that far ahead.

But politicians are old people as a rule. Young politicians act too radically. It is bad.

Stay away from the Green parties ... they break economies and people's lives.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello David,

On Friday December 24 2021 07:27, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

There are no such thing as facts - only opinions.

At least that's what I think.

I disagree. But of course that is just my opinion.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

On 24/12/2021 08:06, Michiel van der Vlist : David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> There are no such thing as facts - only opinions.

 DD>> At least that's what I think.

MvdV> I disagree. But of course that is just my opinion.

:)

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Bucca, Qld (3:640/305)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 23.12.2021 10:42

ak>> It's life -- old people think slower and became absent-minded.
ak>> And, besides, wisdom came, which tells that chess now is foolish
ak>> way of time spending.

WD> Depends. I play a decent game of chess... at age 11 I beat my dad
WD> who had an international ranking... he never recovered from that
WD> (claiming I was so lowly ranked that I could never beat him though
WD> the board said 'check mate')

Devoting a whole life to chess was justified in the time when there was
no computers and other clever things. Chess now (when you do it as a professional) is useless spending of mental energy, while there are a
great number of other ways to utilize it. I understand, of course, that
any competition now can bring money, even a group jumping in sacks
around the pole, but nevertheless....

WD> Then 2 years ago my 9 yr old granddaughter beat me and I smiled, I
WD> did not let her beat me, she just did it... and I knew she was
WD> going to be OK being able to master that and think that far ahead.

I wish her to not become a gamer.

ak>> But politicians are old people as a rule. Young politicians act
ak>> too radically. It is bad.

WD> Stay away from the Green parties... they break economies and
WD> people's lives.

Actually, their actions will be either positive for people or negative.
People in democratic countries must decide it themselves.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2021
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Alexander,

Actually, their actions will be either positive for people or negative. People in democratic countries must decide it themselves.

Democracy is a hoax ... Money decides because that is what makes the wheels spin, not democracy ... our current government in Belgium is a clear example of how a minority of political parties hi-jacked the will of the people by not being representative for the majority ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Dec 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 24.12.2021 12:45

ak>> Actually, their actions will be either positive for people
ak>> or negative. People in democratic countries must decide it
ak>> themselves.
WD> Democracy is a hoax ... Money decides because that is what
WD> makes the wheels spin, not democracy ... our current government
WD> in Belgium is a clear example of how a minority of political
WD> parties hi-jacked the will of the people by not being
WD> representative for the majority ...

I also noted that the situation has a tendency to go from worse to the
worst. ;-) And in human rights too, judging by the trial of Julian
Assange and those who protested against election results in the USA. We
should wait a very little time until the people participating in
meetings and protests will be fined automatically via street cameras.
And money will be automatically withdrawn from your bank account before
you return home. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2021
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)