Re: Alcohol
By: Loco to All on Mon Dec 19 2016 09:42 pm

What is your opinion of the following statements?

1) In biblical times, there were no alcoholic beverages. The biblical term "new wine" referred to grape juice.

Wher in your bible does it tell you this?

2) According to the bible, it is a sin to consume alcoholic beverages in ANY quantity.

I is a sin to desicrate ones temple (get drunk) also everything else is a sin too if you look at it in bible terms, ANY part of the bible can be twisted as anyone sees fit to fit "their" agenda.

3) At the wedding, Jesus didn't actually turn the water to wine, but to grape juice. (see #1)

Qupte scripture ( not what you see when reading )

Just to get things rolling, I'll throw out there that fermentation is a natural process, and that PREVENTING alcohol is much more difficult than producing it.

God gave man every seed bearing plant on this earth for sustinance and medication Marijuana is PROVEN to be a better medication than many other FDA "Approved" snakeoil out there, yes it's still banned in MOST of the US.

And fermentation of fruit to crate medication for depression, etc has it's benefits in moderations, Also water was VERT dirty back then, it either (1) had to be turned to alchohol, or (2) boiled to bathe in, harldy was it ever drank (in large populations of course).

Also, they had vinegar. Barring modern technology, the only way to get vinegar is to ferment a sugar-bearing liquid.

Thoughts?

Read thoughts above, I still want to see the scriptur in RED when god stated it was a sin to drink alchohlic beferages in any amount.

I also want to see (1) all the refrerences that would make marijuana a legal plant (2) ANYTHING in scripture that would make it illegal.

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Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

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Re: Alcohol
By: kk4qbn to Loco on Tue Dec 20 2016 05:54 am

Wher in your bible does it tell you this?

I don't say " in your bible" because I'mm nor religious" I sa it this way because there are many different religious and many differenct sects of those relgions.

I am religious to an extent. I'm NOT a c hurch goer, becuase every one I've ever been to has been a worse social experiment than any highschool could ever be.

I I believe to be any sort of scientist, you must not also discount the fact that their is a God, of sort of form out there. Science is ever changing, yet faith has ALWAYS been there. Regarldess of whether God is one of the "aliens" from stargate SG1, and the show has been produced so that when first encounter on a massive scale is'nt so scary for everyone.

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Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

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■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

Re: Alcohol
By: Loco to All on Mon Dec 19 2016 09:42 pm

What is your opinion of the following statements?

1) In biblical times, there were no alcoholic beverages. The biblical term "new wine" referred to grape juice.

False

2) According to the bible, it is a sin to consume alcoholic beverages in ANY quantity.

False

3) At the wedding, Jesus didn't actually turn the water to wine, but to grape juice. (see #1)

False

Just to get things rolling, I'll throw out there that fermentation is a natural process, and that PREVENTING alcohol is much more difficult than producing it.

Also, they had vinegar. Barring modern technology, the only way to get vinegar is to ferment a sugar-bearing liquid.

Where did these statemente originate? On what basis are they being made? There are three claims made with nothing backing them up, hence I post three rebuttals with nothing backing those up either.

... I'm going to make a prediction - it could go either way.

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Re: Alcohol
By: Hemo to Loco on Tue Dec 20 2016 07:59:49

Where did these statemente originate? On what basis are they being made? There are three claims made with nothing backing them up, hence I post three rebuttals with nothing backing those up either.

Actually, these are all things I have heard many times on a Sunday morning. It causes me to be unhappy, as I agree that they apparently cannot be backed up with scripture.

I was kinda hoping that somebody could come up with a biblical justification, as I seem to have missed reading that particular chapter/verse.

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Re: Alcohol
By: Loco to Hemo on Wed Dec 21 2016 09:56 pm

Actually, these are all things I have heard many times on a Sunday morning.

It

causes me to be unhappy, as I agree that they apparently cannot be backed up with scripture.

I was kinda hoping that somebody could come up with a biblical justification

,

as I seem to have missed reading that particular chapter/verse.

I do have a thought on this, complete with what I found and learned myself that I plan sharing. Right now, I don't have the time to dedicate to reply to this message, and I do have plans to address this.

More to come... I replied to this already in previous messages, but it looks like it happened at the same time when we Snychronet was being moved to new servers and my replies didn't get echo to other BBSes.

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■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

Re: Alcohol
By: Loco to Hemo on Wed Dec 21 2016 09:56 pm

Actually, these are all things I have heard many times on a Sunday morning. causes me to be unhappy, as I agree that they apparently cannot be backed up with scripture.

I was kinda hoping that somebody could come up with a biblical justification as I seem to have missed reading that particular chapter/verse.

The closest thing that I was able to find was Proverbs 20:1

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived
thereby is not wise." - Proverbs 20:1, King James

Here are two words of interest here: "wine" and "strong drink".

In Strong's Hebrew concordence:

Wine - 03196 - [yayin] - \yah'-yin\ -- From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: -{banqueting} {wine} wine [-bibber].

Strong Drink - 07941 - [shekar] - \shay-kawr'\ -- From 07937; an {intoxicant} that {is} intensely alcholoic; liquor:- strong {drink} + {drunkard} strong wine.

Drunk - 07937 - [shakar] - \shaw-kar'\ -- A primative root; to become tipsy; in a qualified {sense} to satiate with a stimulating drink or (figuratively) influence.

Here is the thing, though. The verse that I had in mind after reading through the original message, was Proverbs 31:6

"Give a strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those
that be of heavy hearts." - Proverbs 36:1, King James

Notice that it uses the same two words: wine and strong drink. Believe it or not, it is the same EXACT two words used: wine (03196) and strong drink (7941). To me, this implies that is OK to have some alcohol, and (obviously) in moderation.

Now, to your point of Christ turning water into, alledgely, grape juice. Let us apply some common knowledge here. Would you drink just juice at a wedding? Me, personally, I would not... I would hope that there is some form of alcohol. Granted, there is probably nothing else I can drink other than water.

Even then, the verses of where Christ turned water into wine (and yes, it was really wine), is John 2:1-11. Obviously, I am not going to quote all of it, but let us look at verse 9, speficially:

"When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water which was made wine, and
knew not whence it was :(but the servants which drew the water knew;) the
governor of the feast called the bridegroom" - John 2:9, King James

Now, let's take a look at Strong's Greek concordence.

In Strong's Greek Concordence:

Wine - 3631 - [oinos] - \oy'-nos\ -- a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin (03196)); "wine" (literally or figurative):--wine.

Interesting, now it points back to the original Hebrew word, yayin (03196).
If Christ was so staunchly against alcohol of any kind, why do this miracle? Now, granted, that John never states if Christ really did have some of the wine or not (and I suspect we will never know for sure).

Now, do not feel like you are alone in feeling unhappy with what is said in church. I used to be a Southern Baptist myself, and I found myself questioning some of their beliefs. Eventually, I have left and I did find a church that
I am happy to be in and where others believe the same thing that I do. If you find yourself feeling unhappy with other things they are saying, do not feel bad for wanting to find a new congregation to go to. In the end, it is your faith that you need to be more worried about, not how other people feel.

One more thought, the Church that I am in has a saying: "Don't believe me, believe your Bible." What that means is you cannot just blindly follow or believe what your minister is saying; go look it up yourself and find the
truth on your own. If there is something that you're not sure about, look it up and ask questions. If how they justify it makes you feel more comfortable, great! If not, do not worry about it. Again, it is your faith that matters in the end.

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■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US

|I is a sin to desicrate ones temple (get drunk) also everything else is a sin │too if you look at it in bible terms, ANY part of the bible can be twisted as │anyone sees fit to fit "their" agenda.

Shhhhhh.... don't tell anyone, but if that is true I am sining right now. :o

##Mmr 2.61ß. !link K 12-20-16 5:54
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