Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I last posted on this board.
But a few weeks ago, I was able to get a hold of a turntable
and a bunch of LPs for around 60 dollars. The turntable itself
wasn't in the best of shape. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

Other than that, it still works nicely. Albeit the records that
that I have are skipping a lot because of that old stylus.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

Cheers,
Atroxi

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
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Hello Atroxi!

** On Thursday 15.07.21 - 20:57, Atroxi wrote to All:

.. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

Other than that, it still works nicely. Albeit the records that
that I have are skipping a lot because of that old stylus.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

Get a new stylus/cartridge, first thing!

It's much better to just get a needle-cartridge "set" than
trying to muck around fitting just a stylus.

From my experience, a new stylus is recommended after a few
hundred-hours of play.

Enjoy!


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I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

Not sure...but I have a whole slew of vinyl LP's that my late Mom
and Dad bought over the years (they were married for just over 54
years, before pancreatic cancer killed him). I also have several
of the Clive Cussler books that my Mom had bought.

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to ship them
out...and am leery of trying to hook up with someone locally that
I don't know to get them. I've heard too many cases of folks who
ended up getting killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

Daryl

... Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food?
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■ Synchronet ■ The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas

Hello Atroxi;

Atroxi wrote to All <=-

It's been a while since I last posted on this board.
But a few weeks ago, I was able to get a hold of a turntable
and a bunch of LPs for around 60 dollars. The turntable itself
wasn't in the best of shape. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

Other than that, it still works nicely. Albeit the records that
that I have are skipping a lot because of that old stylus.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

There's specialty shops around you can find online that may have a good new stylus for you. If I can recall Sansui was an "OK" make back then. Is it
belt driven? You may need a new belt if so. You're better off with a magnetic drive system.

As for keeping your records in decent shape, store them vertically not horizontally! In time they will warp if you do. Only handle them via the
outer edges and you may use a soft dry cloth to wipe them with. Keep your stylus fresh! An old stylus may scrape the insides of the grooves and it will lose it's sound quality.

... Coma - A punctuation mark
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Hello Daryl Stout!

** On Sunday 18.07.21 - 18:10, Daryl Stout wrote to Atroxi:

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to
ship them out...and am leery of trying to hook up with
someone locally that I don't know to get them. I've
heard too many cases of folks who ended up getting
killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

How about taking the meet-ups to a clearly public place where a
lot of people (and security cameras) are around?




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■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Daryl Stout to Atroxi on Sun Jul 18 2021 06:10 pm

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to ship them
out...and am leery of trying to hook up with someone locally that
I don't know to get them. I've heard too many cases of folks who
ended up getting killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

Well, mobsters exchange illegal weapons in public squares or private appartments all the time.

I personally arrange exchanges for second hand stuff in public squares. If I don't know the person I am dealing with I arrange it for going with a couple of friends. The most tense exchange I had done by sending two friends into the square to scout before I went in myself, and I had my friends watch the exchange from the distance just in case.

But seriously, the most common type of incident you are going to face is one of the parties arriving late or failing to show up at all. Which is why you should not sacrifice much in order to attend an exchange.

Nowadays I just use a logistics agency, since I have a logistic plan with my ecommerce site. The agency just sends a guy in, the guy pays and retrieves the package. The cost is very low but the system only works if you trust the other party to play fair. Otherwise they could give you a package full of bricks.

Logistic agencies also prvide cash on delivery, which is handy because you can send your logistics guy in, the receiver can pay for the package upon reception, and everybody is happy.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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On 18 Jul 2021, Daryl Stout said the following...

Not sure...but I have a whole slew of vinyl LP's that my late Mom
and Dad bought over the years (they were married for just over 54
years, before pancreatic cancer killed him). I also have several
of the Clive Cussler books that my Mom had bought.

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to ship them out...and am leery of trying to hook up with someone locally that
I don't know to get them. I've heard too many cases of folks who
ended up getting killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

Check out discogs.org. You may find that some of your albums, especially from some life long collectors, have some real value. Anything reasonably popular/nostalgic is going for $10-$20 a record. The Time Life/As Seen on TV kind of stuff doesn't hold a lot of value, but for beginner collectors who just want to get the experience, you can still sell them for a few $$$.

Amazon sells mailers for vinyl records. They're not super cheap, but if you sell a few records, then it's not a bad investment.

Regarding the hookup, if you meet during daylight hours outside a police station or outside of a busy store, your odds of having trouble are low. Alternatively, if you visit antique stores in your area you might find one willing to take your stuff on consignment or just buy you out outright.

I've only recently started collecting, but it's really important that these things be preserved for the future. </end rant>

GreenLFC ║ e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro ║ masto> greenleaderfanclub@distrotoot
Avoids Politics on BBS ║ gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz

How about taking the meet-ups to a clearly public place where a
lot of people (and security cameras) are around?

I would do it within an area of a strong police presence, but
considering the mindset of certain folks who want to do whatever
they want, without fear of punishment or consequences, I may be
stuck with it.

As 1 Timothy 1:9 notes, "the law was made for the lawless ones".
And, The Lord, He Made The Rules...not me.

Daryl

... Never drink and drive. Hitting a bump spills your drink.
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Ogg wrote to Atroxi <=-

Get a new stylus/cartridge, first thing!

I was going to say, won't a worn stylus potentially damage an LP?


... Where is the edge?
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Brian Rogers wrote to Atroxi <=-

As for keeping your records in decent shape, store them vertically not horizontally! In time they will warp if you do. Only handle them via
the outer edges and you may use a soft dry cloth to wipe them with.
Keep your stylus fresh! An old stylus may scrape the insides of the grooves and it will lose it's sound quality.

I've heard a story from two people now, suppose it's become apocryphal. College radio station is in the basement of a building. Building floods, soaking the records. Albums stacked vertically were intact, but the sleeves were ruined. They bought a bunch of blank cardboard sleeves and cleaned the records, and found that the records played better, because the waterlogged sleeves expanded and straightened out any warp in the records.

Although, it's possible both storytellers went to the same school...


... Where is the edge?
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Hey poindexter;

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I've heard a story from two people now, suppose it's become apocryphal. College radio station is in the basement of a building. Building
floods, soaking the records. Albums stacked vertically were intact, but the sleeves were ruined. They bought a bunch of blank cardboard sleeves and cleaned the records, and found that the records played better,
because the waterlogged sleeves expanded and straightened out any warp
in the records.

I've never heard of that happening before but I wouldn't be surprised.

Although, it's possible both storytellers went to the same school...

True, ya never know.

... Football is a game designed to keep coalminers off the streets
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Hi Ogg!

Ogg wrote to Atroxi <=-

Hello Atroxi!

** On Thursday 15.07.21 - 20:57, Atroxi wrote to All:

.. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

Other than that, it still works nicely. Albeit the records that
that I have are skipping a lot because of that old stylus.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

Get a new stylus/cartridge, first thing!

It's much better to just get a needle-cartridge "set" than
trying to muck around fitting just a stylus.

From my experience, a new stylus is recommended after a few
hundred-hours of play.

Enjoy!

Thanks! I've been looking around and it seems that I can get the stylus for this
model quite easily but the cartridge assembly might be a tad difficult to get.

I'll look around more, but thanks for the advice!

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
--- MultiMail/OpenBSD v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Daryl Stout wrote to Atroxi <=-

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

Not sure...but I have a whole slew of vinyl LP's that my late Mom
and Dad bought over the years (they were married for just over 54
years, before pancreatic cancer killed him). I also have several
of the Clive Cussler books that my Mom had bought.

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to ship them out...and am leery of trying to hook up with someone locally that
I don't know to get them. I've heard too many cases of folks who
ended up getting killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

It is quite a bit sketchy. I'm not sure though where you can offload those.
It would be nice if you can donate that to someone that would really take
care of those media. I wish I'm just local to your area but that's alright.

I hope you're able to find someone who can take care of those things!

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
--- MultiMail/OpenBSD v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Hello Brian!

Brian Rogers wrote to Atroxi <=-

Hello Atroxi;

Atroxi wrote to All <=-

It's been a while since I last posted on this board.
But a few weeks ago, I was able to get a hold of a turntable
and a bunch of LPs for around 60 dollars. The turntable itself
wasn't in the best of shape. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

Other than that, it still works nicely. Albeit the records that
that I have are skipping a lot because of that old stylus.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who are also into LPs
and maybe I could get some advice on keeping and maintaining
these things.

There's specialty shops around you can find online that may have a good new stylus for you. If I can recall Sansui was an "OK" make back then.
Is it belt driven? You may need a new belt if so. You're better off
with a magnetic drive system.

I think it's a direct drive system. I managed to find the repair manual and
the user manual for this specific model and it doesn't seem to have any belts? (I'm not quite sure) I wanted to take a peek inside it but I'm a bit weary of doing so until I managed to get a new stylus for it.

As for keeping your records in decent shape, store them vertically not horizontally! In time they will warp if you do. Only handle them via
the outer edges and you may use a soft dry cloth to wipe them with.
Keep your stylus fresh! An old stylus may scrape the insides of the grooves and it will lose it's sound quality.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take note of it!

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
--- MultiMail/OpenBSD v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Hello Atroxi;

Atroxi wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I think it's a direct drive system. I managed to find the repair manual and the user manual for this specific model and it doesn't seem to have any belts? (I'm not quite sure) I wanted to take a peek inside it but
I'm a bit weary of doing so until I managed to get a new stylus for it.

Direct drive will give you typically (warping of the record considering)
the cleanest "rumble" from the table itself. Mine are direct drive
as well. They're designed for broadcast quality and also durability for
cuing them for remote control start and such.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take note of it!

You're quite welcome. I used to be on the radio back in the day when we used records so I'm pretty familiar with the vinyl and with various turntables. For general home use when you're not cuing up a record for broadcast play any average to above average stylus/cartridge such as audio technica will do fine. But for broadcast usage I prefer stanton cartridges which is what I use.

Also follow the manufacturer's recommended weights! A properly balanced
tonearm will also help prolong the life of your records. One that's weighted too lightly can cause skipping and groove damage from the skips. One that is too heavy can also eat into the grooves causing loss of audio quality.

If taken care of, vinyl can be a very long lasting form of enjoyable sound
for your audio pleasures. I have some that are decades in age that still sound as good as they possibly can.

Enjoy my friend!

... Bacteria - Back door to cafeteria
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Hey Daryl;

Daryl Stout wrote to Atroxi <=-

I have no use for either of these, but can't afford to ship them out...and am leery of trying to hook up with someone locally that
I don't know to get them. I've heard too many cases of folks who
ended up getting killed at a meeting to exchange the items.

Why not find like a church tag sale and try to unload them there. Vinyl
is worth some good $$ and you can donate some to the church where it
hopefully will do some good :)

... I have kleptomania but when it gets bad I take something for it.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ SBBS - Carnage! Hartford, CT bbs.n1uro.com:2300

It is quite a bit sketchy. I'm not sure though where you can offload those. It would be nice if you can donate that to someone that would really take care of those media. I wish I'm just local to your area but that's alright.

I hope you're able to find someone who can take care of those things!

I ran into a gentleman at the Post Office today, who saw the back of my T-Shirt, noting the Clive Cussler Collectors Society. He said he was a big
fan of his, but not a book collector, per se. I would've loved to have had
him take those off my hands.

Daryl

... Put it on my Blackberry? I don't even have a pomegranate!
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■ Synchronet ■ The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas

Brian,

Why not find like a church tag sale and try to unload them there. Vinyl
is worth some good $$ and you can donate some to the church where it hopefully will do some good :)

The libraries and most other areas are real picky on what's donated, with
the massive surge in COVID-19 cases. Right now in Arkansas, it's those who
are NOT vaccinated, and especially those 12 or younger.

FWIW, I had both my shots in April. I read the story on the booster shots, but despite all my medical conditions, I don't qualify for it.

My problem now is dealing with atrial flutter (I had never heard of it before). My heart rate was racing at 155 in the Emergency Room on July 29,
and I ended up being hospitalized for 4 days.

I'm on a blood thinner now (to prevent clots, that could cause a fatal
heart attack or stroke), and a medication to stabilize the heart rate and
the blood pressure (I already had high blood pressure before this, but the medication was keeping it stable). The medicine stabilized the heart rate
to 74 (that's what it was when I had a chemical stress test and an echocardiogram the other day). A friend of mine quipped "It's like 18
holes of golf...74 is a lot better than 155". <G>

... I have kleptomania but when it gets bad I take something for it.

And, schizophrenia beats dining alone. <G> The thing is, with me, myself,
and I at the table, who picks up the tab for the dinner?? <G>

Daryl

... Error??!! - Impossible!! My keyboard is error correcting!!
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Hello Atroxi!

** On Saturday 14.08.21 - 12:58, Atroxi wrote to Ogg:

.. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

[...]

I've been looking around and it seems that I can get the
stylus for this model quite easily but the cartridge
assembly might be a tad difficult to get.

And.. I just noticed that the model is a linear-tracking
design. Those always intrigued me. And, it's a direct-drive
machine. Always wanted one of those!

What I primarily subscribe to was the bayonet type mount system
for the cartridge assembly.

My last remain working system is a woodgrain Pioneer PL-A35. I
love the arm/cartridge balancing system. It reminds me of a
steampunk world.


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Hello Daryl;

Daryl Stout wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

Why not find like a church tag sale and try to unload them there. Vinyl
is worth some good $$ and you can donate some to the church where it hopefully will do some good :)

The libraries and most other areas are real picky on what's donated, with the massive surge in COVID-19 cases. Right now in Arkansas, it's those who are NOT vaccinated, and especially those 12 or younger.

Go elsewhere if you wish to see them with someone who can appreciate them!
If they're going to let Covid rule that they can't be sold, they they've already let the virus kill them! Mouse and Elephant thing here... not to be confused with Moose and Squirrel <G>

Remember: it's not quarantining, it's government's way of sending you to illegal house arrest!


... Vuja De: the feeling that nothing like this has ever happened before.
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Brian,

Go elsewhere if you wish to see them with someone who can appreciate
them! If they're going to let Covid rule that they can't be sold, they they've already let the virus kill them! Mouse and Elephant thing
here... not to be confused with Moose and Squirrel <G>

Man, I miss those old cartoons.

But, now with being a cardiac patient, I have more important fish to fry right now. I was in the hospital for 4 days, with my heart racing at 155
(I called 911, and was ambulatory to the ER). They finally got me on a
blood thinner to prevent clots, and a deal to stabilize the heart rate
and blood pressure (it was 74 at the Heart Clinic, where I had a chemical stress test and an ECG last week). That chemical stress test makes you
feel like you're having a heart attack, and it hits about as fast as if
your were bitten by a snake!!

A fellow ham radio operator said that it's like 18 holes of golf...74
is much better than 155!! (hi hi).

My dilemma now is needing a colonoscopy and an EGD (literally, top to
bottom <G>)...but they want you to stop blood thinners from a week before
to 2 days after. If I do that, I could risk a fatal clot (stroke or heart attack)...and if I don't, I could bleed out.

Remember: it's not quarantining, it's government's way of sending you
to illegal house arrest!

When I had chicken pox back over 41 years ago, I was in the hospital for
a week, and out of work at a local Burger King, and out of school at the University Of Arkansas At Little Rock for 2 months, by order of the State Health Department.

It was like someone had dropped me in a vat of itching powder, and closed
the lid. It nearly went into encephalitis, and they put me in isolation.
The doctor said "it was the worst case he had ever seen". I had to take
NASTY oatmeal baths for 3 days...I swore I'd never look at that the same
way again. :P

Vuja De: the feeling that nothing like this has ever happened before.

Stolen...or should I say "acquired for tagline research". <G>

Daryl, WX4QZ

... Deja Booboo: When you feel you've screwed this up before.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas

Hey Brian,

Brian Rogers wrote to Atroxi <=-

Hello Atroxi;

Atroxi wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I think it's a direct drive system. I managed to find the repair manual and the user manual for this specific model and it doesn't seem to have any belts? (I'm not quite sure) I wanted to take a peek inside it but
I'm a bit weary of doing so until I managed to get a new stylus for it.

Direct drive will give you typically (warping of the record
considering) the cleanest "rumble" from the table itself. Mine are
direct drive as well. They're designed for broadcast quality and also durability for cuing them for remote control start and such.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take note of it!

You're quite welcome. I used to be on the radio back in the day when we used records so I'm pretty familiar with the vinyl and with various turntables. For general home use when you're not cuing up a record for broadcast play any average to above average stylus/cartridge such as
audio technica will do fine. But for broadcast usage I prefer stanton cartridges which is what I use.

That's interesting. I grew up during the time that vinyl is already considered `obsolete' technology. As such, I never really gave any thought for how
things were done pre-CD and digital formats.

Nowadays, setting up a `web radio station' is really simple. But I assume things
are much more complicated before.

Also follow the manufacturer's recommended weights! A properly balanced tonearm will also help prolong the life of your records. One that's weighted too lightly can cause skipping and groove damage from the
skips. One that is too heavy can also eat into the grooves causing loss
of audio quality.

Got it. I'm not quite sure how to do that yet. But I hope I get the time to get really into it. :-)

If taken care of, vinyl can be a very long lasting form of enjoyable
sound for your audio pleasures. I have some that are decades in age
that still sound as good as they possibly can.

It really is. This might just be placebo working its way but listening to
sound produced through a grooved vinylite is an inherently different experience to just loading up an opus or mp3 file in the computer.

Enjoy my friend!

Thanks!

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
--- MultiMail/OpenBSD v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Hey Daryl,

Daryl Stout wrote to Atroxi <=-

It is quite a bit sketchy. I'm not sure though where you can offload those. It would be nice if you can donate that to someone that would really take care of those media. I wish I'm just local to your area but that's alright.

I hope you're able to find someone who can take care of those things!

I ran into a gentleman at the Post Office today, who saw the back of
my T-Shirt, noting the Clive Cussler Collectors Society. He said he was
a big fan of his, but not a book collector, per se. I would've loved to have had him take those off my hands.

It will get there, hahaha! It is nice to be able to find someone willing to take up the junk that we don't really want to keep instead of just throwing
it away. At least it will give us the peace of mind that whatever we gave
will be taken care of and not just rot in some abandoned place.

... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
--- MultiMail/OpenBSD v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Atroxi to Brian Rogers on Mon Aug 16 2021 11:37 am

That's interesting. I grew up during the time that vinyl is already considered `obsolete' technology. As such, I never really gave any thought for how things were done pre-CD and digital formats.

CD is a digital format.. Audio on a CD is stored digitally.
Cassette tapes were popular when I was growing up, but CDs had just come around too, so older formats such as vinyl were the old obsolete thing when I was growing up too. It seems there are people who have always liked vinyl though.

One thing I liked about cassette tapes was that they were easy to record audio on, compared to vinyl and CD. Even when CD-R discs came out, I don't recall ever seeing a stereo or anything where you could put in a CD-R disc, press a record button, and record from a mic or from the radio. But it was nice to be able to burn onto a CD with a CD burner in a PC.

Nightfox

Hello Atroxi;

Atroxi wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

That's interesting. I grew up during the time that vinyl is already considered `obsolete' technology. As such, I never really gave any
thought for how things were done pre-CD and digital formats.

As you see however, NO technology is *really* obsolete as long as the device itself still works - which it does. Even the Edophone still works as long as you can find the waxes for it. A nice compliment to records is open reel or some call it reel-to-reel tape. Better if you can find a unit with DBX noise reduction.

Nowadays, setting up a `web radio station' is really simple. But I
assume things
are much more complicated before.

I had one years ago. Some of my old shows are on my website. If you netmail
me I'll be happy to send you the link. I used what we call CARTS both tape
and CD carts. I was a professional broadcast DJ for decades. Compared to broadcast where you need transmitters, licenses, etc. setting up web
streams are quite simple.

Got it. I'm not quite sure how to do that yet. But I hope I get the
time to get really into it. :-)

When you put your cartridge on the tonearm, set it so that it's perfectly horizontal and adjust the weight gauge to 0. then turn the weight where it reads to what your manufacturer specs are.

It really is. This might just be placebo working its way but listening
to sound produced through a grooved vinylite is an inherently different experience to just loading up an opus or mp3 file in the computer.

The sound is slightly different. The insturmentation I feel is a lot cleaner and more 'natural' compared to today's digital... but that's my opinion. Today's digital is a LOT more portable! Music on an iPod or phone tied into
a car via aux or bluetooth for example.

fyi: you know you've cranked up your music too loud when...
-you get feedback from the tonearm
-your vinyl skips from the vibrations

yes I've done both <G>

... He who has burned his mouth blows his soup.
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■ Synchronet ■ SBBS - Carnage! Hartford, CT bbs.n1uro.com:2300

Hey Nightfox;

Nightfox wrote to Atroxi <=-

CD is a digital format.. Audio on a CD is stored digitally.
Cassette tapes were popular when I was growing up, but CDs had just
come around too, so older formats such as vinyl were the old obsolete thing when I was growing up too. It seems there are people who have always liked vinyl though.

Do you recall 8-tracks?? Great in theory, horrible in design! One used to see smashed 8-tracks and yards of mylar stretched out along roads like we did plastic bags just a few years ago LOL

I loved cassettes especially for the car. I still have a cassette player in mine but I haven't touched it since I got this car. I use a limiter in my
audio chain when recording onto cassette so I raise the audio above the
tape's noise theshold which also allows me to maintain the volume in the car above road noise level.

One thing I liked about cassette tapes was that they were easy to
record audio on, compared to vinyl and CD. Even when CD-R discs came
out, I don't recall ever seeing a stereo or anything where you could
put in a CD-R disc, press a record button, and record from a mic or
from the radio. But it was nice to be able to burn onto a CD with a CD burner in a PC.

Yes they were convenient but then again back then radio was of a better quality product to listen to. Now it's all canned by a computer - which is why I got out of the industry!

... Rectum - What nearly killed him
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Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Brian Rogers to Nightfox on Thu Aug 19 2021 10:44 am

Do you recall 8-tracks?? Great in theory, horrible in design! One used to see smashed 8-tracks and yards of mylar stretched out along roads like we did plastic bags just a few years ago LOL

I know of 8-tracks but I've never actually used one. I'm probably too young.. By the time I was growing up, cassette tapes were very common. I've never even seen an 8-track player in a car in my lifetime, unless perhaps it was an older car.

Yes they were convenient but then again back then radio was of a better quality product to listen to. Now it's all canned by a computer - which is why I got out of the industry!

What do you mean by "canned by a computer"?

Nightfox

Hey Nightfox;

Nightfox wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I know of 8-tracks but I've never actually used one. I'm probably too young.. By the time I was growing up, cassette tapes were very common.
I've never even seen an 8-track player in a car in my lifetime, unless perhaps it was an older car.

My very first car had one in it and no one knew! I purchased it from my mom
and she had it for years and didn't know it was there. It was an AM/8-track player <G> They were convenient but often failed in one way or another.

What do you mean by "canned by a computer"?

Canned by a computer meaning the announcer records his voice tracks into the
PC and saves the various files, and the computer handles the rest live. Not
at all fun and takes away the human factor from a show.

... We do not want sleazy underthings for christmas... Give us money
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Hey Ogg,

Ogg wrote to Atroxi <=-

Hello Atroxi!

** On Saturday 14.08.21 - 12:58, Atroxi wrote to Ogg:

.. It's an old Sansui P-L51 and its
main issue was with its old stylus and a gnawed ground cable.

[...]

I've been looking around and it seems that I can get the
stylus for this model quite easily but the cartridge
assembly might be a tad difficult to get.

And.. I just noticed that the model is a linear-tracking
design. Those always intrigued me. And, it's a direct-drive
machine. Always wanted one of those!

Yeah, they are quite fun to use as well! Albeit you can't really
manually move the stylus as with other turntables and you can't
change the slip mat since the linear tracking relies on it being
that exact slip mat. Luckily mine still hasn't disintegrated so
it's still working great.

What I primarily subscribe to was the bayonet type mount system
for the cartridge assembly.

My last remain working system is a woodgrain Pioneer PL-A35. I
love the arm/cartridge balancing system. It reminds me of a
steampunk world.

Just looked it up. Man that does evoke some steampunk vibes.


... {gemini,https}://rtr.kalayaan.xyz -- visit me! :-)
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Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Brian Rogers to Nightfox on Thu Aug 19 2021 07:55 pm

I know of 8-tracks but I've never actually used one. I'm probably
too young.. By the time I was growing up, cassette tapes were very
common. I've never even seen an 8-track player in a car in my
lifetime, unless perhaps it was an older car.

My very first car had one in it and no one knew! I purchased it from my mom and she had it for years and didn't know it was there. It was an AM/8-track player <G> They were convenient but often failed in one way or another.

How do you not know that's there, when the car streo is usually right there next to the steering wheel?

Nightfox

Hello Nightfox;

Nightfox wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

How do you not know that's there, when the car streo is usually right there next to the steering wheel?

It was second hand, and no manual. No stereo either was just AM/8-track and
I did find it. :)



... I laughed, I cried, it became a part of me.
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Hello Brian Rogers!

** On Thursday 19.08.21 - 10:44, Brian Rogers wrote to Nightfox:

Yes they were convenient but then again back then radio
was of a better quality product to listen to. Now it's all
canned by a computer - which is why I got out of the
industry!

Did you get out or get thrown out? :/ There was a radical
modernization of the local radio station in my town: Moose FM.
End result, fewer radio hosts were needed. Local programming
was scaled back. Jobs were lost.

I had a brief stint as tech operator (queing up the music and
commercials) at the my university radio station. That was so
much fun. I never had the guts to host my own show, but there
were a handful of hosts that just wanted someone to do the
technical part for them. The turntables were awesome and solid
performers.

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Hello Ogg;

Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

Did you get out or get thrown out? :/ There was a radical
modernization of the local radio station in my town: Moose FM.
End result, fewer radio hosts were needed. Local programming
was scaled back. Jobs were lost.

I left the industry. Back in my day I was one of the top hosts in the regional ratings... but I saw the writing on the wall and I didn't care for that type
of environment. Not being able to do things at the spur of the moment and
joke around with callers was just not fun. It's like giving a kid a candy
bar and then when he's half way through taking it away.

I had a brief stint as tech operator (queing up the music and
commercials) at the my university radio station. That was so
much fun. I never had the guts to host my own show, but there
were a handful of hosts that just wanted someone to do the
technical part for them. The turntables were awesome and solid
performers.

Today they call that function a "producer". That's not that easy of a job
IF you also have to control when things start because if someone else is doing the talking you sometimes aren't quite sure just when to start the next element. I hated doing that. I prefer to run everything myself so I know how the flow will be. One thing I was known for was having a tight board and being well produced.

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Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I had a brief stint as tech operator (queing up the music and
commercials) at the my university radio station. That was so
much fun. I never had the guts to host my own show, but there
were a handful of hosts that just wanted someone to do the
technical part for them. The turntables were awesome and solid
performers.

Everyone I know who has worked in college radio loved it. I wish my college had a proper station, instead they had an audiocast on their in-house cable system - as well as a couple of local cable TV stations that anyone could
sign up for, but they were limited to on-campus viewing.

Cable provided some fun times in the '90s. Cable access regulations required that cable providers to provide air time to local talent. In San Francisco Viacom cable had a full production set with cameras and some basic sets that you could block time for and do a show to be broadcast on cable.

A couple of friends of mine had a talk show with a band, local guests and a "live studio audience" composed of friends. We'd all go out for dinner and drinks afterwards.






... It's all more or less the same.. but it's all different now.
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Hello Brian Rogers!

** On Saturday 21.08.21 - 10:06, Brian Rogers wrote to Ogg:

I had a brief stint as tech operator (queing up the music
and commercials) at the my university radio station. That
was so much fun. I never had the guts to host my own
show, but there were a handful of hosts that just wanted
someone to do the technical part for them. The turntables
were awesome and solid performers.

Today they call that function a "producer".

I always thought a producer was someone who backed a show with
finances - much like how that term is used in the film
industry. But the term that was on the schedule-board was
"technician".

That's not that easy of a job IF you also have to control
when things start because if someone else is doing the
talking you sometimes aren't quite sure just when to start
the next element. I hated doing that. I prefer to run
everything myself so I know how the flow will be. One
thing I was known for was having a tight board and being
well produced.

It went alright. The university radio station had three
studios all "connected" and visible to each other by large
glass windows. I would be in one studio and the host would be
in another. The host of the show would either give me a hand
signal or they give me the key words to listen to before
starting a song or breaking to commercial.

I really enjoyed cueing the tunes on LPs so that the music or
the voice over is just enough before the actual lyrics start.

Then, sometimes it required prepping a taped announcement (I
think they were on 8-track cartridges!)

To qualify being part of the radio club, we were put through a
test that consisted of a mock solo radio show. I did quite
alright by "producing" a music-themed trivia show, but I really
just prefered to manage the equipment and switches and let
someone else do the talking.

I volunteered to power up the transmitters on Sunday mornings
and queue the national anthem. That was a cool job with lots of
switches to flip and dials to turn.


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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Brian Rogers on Mon Aug 30 2021 08:59 pm

Today they call that function a "producer".

I always thought a producer was someone who backed a show with
finances - much like how that term is used in the film
industry.

That's an "executive producer".
--
digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #10:
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Hey Ogg;

Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I always thought a producer was someone who backed a show with
finances - much like how that term is used in the film
industry. But the term that was on the schedule-board was
"technician".

Much different meanings! A producer helps coordinate a show, may run the board, coordinate any guests, etc.

It went alright. The university radio station had three
studios all "connected" and visible to each other by large
glass windows. I would be in one studio and the host would be
in another. The host of the show would either give me a hand
signal or they give me the key words to listen to before
starting a song or breaking to commercial.

I could never do a show like that. While I realize it may have been easier for you, I'd still have an issue doing that.

I really enjoyed cueing the tunes on LPs so that the music or
the voice over is just enough before the actual lyrics start.

Tight board work is always a pleasure and self rewarding.

Then, sometimes it required prepping a taped announcement (I
think they were on 8-track cartridges!)

They were either 2 or 3 track CARTs. I have a multitude of carts and decks.
One of my older ones is an original Harris Critereon from WLS in Chicago.
It came with a tech manual and after reviewing it I made an Eq for the playback cans. Sounds pretty damn good.

To qualify being part of the radio club, we were put through a
test that consisted of a mock solo radio show. I did quite
alright by "producing" a music-themed trivia show, but I really
just prefered to manage the equipment and switches and let
someone else do the talking.

I never minded the announcing. I'm sure it was a pretty simple test to take.

I volunteered to power up the transmitters on Sunday mornings
and queue the national anthem. That was a cool job with lots of
switches to flip and dials to turn.

I bet! When I was in high school still, I was doing a sunday morning show
and then had to run the weekly god squad. It was a 500Watt daytime AM that played hot A/C... borderline CHR. I'd have to fire up the transmitters and
wait a bit for them to be at spec before turning the switch to the sticks out in back on.

The station had a cat, it was it's mascot of sorts which was cool. Feeding the cat was part of opening duties. It was a pretty neutral cat, not mean but not overly friendly.

... My computer keeps answering me back ! (No I don't)
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Hello Brian Rogers!

** On Tuesday 31.08.21 - 18:33, Brian Rogers wrote to Ogg:

It went alright. The university radio station had three
studios all "connected" and visible to each other by
large glass windows. I would be in one studio and the
host would be in another. The host of the show would
either give me a hand signal or they give me the key
words to listen to before starting a song or breaking to
commercial.

I could never do a show like that. While I realize it may
have been easier for you, I'd still have an issue doing
that.

It wasn't a problem at all. We could always get the attention
of the other person by sending a message over the headphones.
It was like working as a team. I learned how different hosts
preferred to work. Techs could select a particuilar show to
work on, or a host could try to request a specific person to
work with.

To qualify being part of the radio club, we were put
through a test that consisted of a mock solo radio show.
[...]

I never minded the announcing. I'm sure it was a pretty
simple test to take.

It was fairly simple for the most part. But the tester injected
random "emergencies" or something specific that needed to be
done. One random request required me to queue up a specific commercial/announcement which tested my ability to find it in
the pile of tapes, and even queue it up in an adjoining studio
and control it back in my main studio. And.. I had to play it
within a specific time integrating it into the flow and context
of my own show. I loved the ability to control gear in another
studio, but it required specific jumpering to set that up.

I volunteered to power up the transmitters on Sunday
mornings and queue the national anthem. That was a cool
job with lots of switches to flip and dials to turn.

I bet! When I was in high school still, I was doing a
sunday morning show and then had to run the weekly god
squad. It was a 500Watt daytime AM that played hot A/C...
borderline CHR. I'd have to fire up the transmitters and
wait a bit for them to be at spec before turning the
switch to the sticks out in back on.

Yes.. I think my campus station was on AM at the time too.
There was a warm up period to reach spec before flipping some
main switches.

The station had a cat, it was it's mascot of sorts which
was cool. Feeding the cat was part of opening duties. It
was a pretty neutral cat, not mean but not overly
friendly.

No litter box duties?


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Hello poindexter FORTRAN!

** On Monday 23.08.21 - 08:21, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Ogg:

I had a brief stint as tech operator (queing up the music
and commercials) at the my university radio station. That
was so much fun. [...]

Everyone I know who has worked in college radio loved it.
I wish my college had a proper station, instead they had
an audiocast on their in-house cable system - as well as a
couple of local cable TV stations that anyone could sign
up for, but they were limited to on-campus viewing.

Our radio station was AM and FM. Some shows were exclusive to
only AM or FM, but others were simulcast. Later, a few years
after I had graduated, they transitioned to FM stereo with
transmitters located off campus.

The campus had wired links to many of the buildings on campus
so that they could conduct a show from anywhere as the need
arose. I never learned how that was done.

The station info is https://www.cfrc.ca/ ..and is available
over the internet since 2004.

Cable provided some fun times in the '90s. Cable access
regulations required that cable providers to provide air
time to local talent. In San Francisco Viacom cable had a
full production set with cameras and some basic sets that
you could block time for and do a show to be broadcast on
cable.

A couple of friends of mine had a talk show with a band,
local guests and a "live studio audience" composed of
friends. We'd all go out for dinner and drinks afterwards.

Sounds like it was good times for sure.


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Hey Ogg;

Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

It wasn't a problem at all. We could always get the attention
of the other person by sending a message over the headphones.
It was like working as a team. I learned how different hosts
preferred to work. Techs could select a particuilar show to
work on, or a host could try to request a specific person to
work with.

That would have helped but we didn't have that sort of luxury, which was fine for me since I liked just doing it all myself. The only ones who were even
able to have an "engineer" were morning show hosts when I was in the commercial game, and you weren't necessarily chosen by the host unless they were the program director. Now the producer/engineer also seems to be sharing in some
of the announcing duties. You can tell the industry is taking by the way
they keep slashing the budgets.

It was fairly simple for the most part. But the tester injected
random "emergencies" or something specific that needed to be
done. One random request required me to queue up a specific commercial/announcement which tested my ability to find it in
the pile of tapes, and even queue it up in an adjoining studio
and control it back in my main studio. And.. I had to play it
within a specific time integrating it into the flow and context
of my own show. I loved the ability to control gear in another
studio, but it required specific jumpering to set that up.

That sounded pretty fair all things considered.

Yes.. I think my campus station was on AM at the time too.
There was a warm up period to reach spec before flipping some
main switches.

Yes! Nothing like waiting for an antiquated Harris transmitter to warm up before throwing the switches on!

No litter box duties?

Whew no thank god! It was at the other end of the building so we wouldn't have to share in the ferotious feline aroma!

... Is it ok to yell "theater" in a crowded firehouse?
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09-04-21 21:19 Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers about Turntables and LPs
Howdy! Ogg and Brian,

@MSGID: <6134217C.2111.dove-hob@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <612EB78C.83.dove-hobby@bbs.n1uro.com>
Hello Brian Rogers!

** On Tuesday 31.08.21 - 18:33, Brian Rogers wrote to Ogg:

/SNIP\

I volunteered to power up the transmitters on Sunday
mornings and queue the national anthem. That was a cool
job with lots of switches to flip and dials to turn.

/SNIP\

Yes.. I think my campus station was on AM at the time too.
There was a warm up period to reach spec before flipping some
main switches.

Those 866 Mercury Vapor Tubes (Valves) needed some time before
throwing High Voltage power at them.

Then They would look pretty flickering in the Power Supply.

The newer 3B28 Tube (iirc) didn't flicker but they lasted longer than
the 866'es could.

I told a friend about seeing the advertisement about the 3B28 and he
put two in his E. F. Johnson Valiant Transmitter and never had to
replace them. They didn't fail like the 866'es did.

Did You need a Commercial Radio License to operate the transmitter?

73 de Ed W9ODR dit dit


... I have a mind like a steel ...uh...er...whatchamacallit!
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Hello Ed;

Ed Vance wrote to Ogg <=-

09-04-21 21:19 Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers about Turntables and LPs
Howdy! Ogg and Brian,

*snip*

Did You need a Commercial Radio License to operate the transmitter?

When I was first in the industry yes. Later on a permit for the newbies was
the only thing they needed and testing was not required. Personally speaking,
I think the CRL was better than the PC3. Testing does something that makes people appreciate what they have more and their knowledge of what they're
doing (operating a transmitter) is improved. In the mid/late 80s when so
many post 70's jocks were tx operators just logged readings and had no idea what they were really knowing what they were doing when an issue did appear. Some of them were simple to fix, others not so easy.

... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
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Hello Ed Vance!

** On Tuesday 07.09.21 - 10:57, Ed Vance wrote to Ogg:

Did You need a Commercial Radio License to operate the transmitter?

I would imagine that was the case.

The history of CFRC here:

https://archives.queensu.ca/exhibits/cfrc


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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Ed Vance on Sat Sep 11 2021 10:18 pm

A while ago, I saw something online about this ELP laser turntable: https://www.elpj.com

It's a record player that uses a laser (rather than a stylus) to read the grooves on the disc. The advantage would be that since it doesn't make physical contact with the record, it won't wear out the record. Also, they say the sound should be really good since there shouldn't be any hiss from a stylus sliding across the record surface. Also, I think this turntable would be a good candidate to be used for digitizing records.

I've been curious to try one, but they're so expensive. They cost at least $10,000 (which seems a bit ridiculous to me).. Also, I've read some reviews saying the sound isn't as good as you might think, and that the laser will also pick up dust and translate it to audio, which isn't really a good thing; so the record would need to be very clean before being played in this player.

If I could find a laser turntable like that for cheap, I might be tempted to buy one and get into collecting records.

Nightfox

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to All on Tue Sep 14 2021 09:05 am

If I could find a laser turntable like that for cheap, I might be tempted to buy one and get into collecting records.

I still have all my old records and will (very rarely) buy new ones, but I really don't listen to them. I don't think they sound "better" than CDs or FLACs and are so inconvenient. I just love (much) of the album art on those beautiful 12" sleeves. It is a hobby though and more power to you! If you find out how those laser record players work/sound, be sure to let us know. :-)
--
digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #43:
I feel my role in the band is ... kind of like lukewarm water.
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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Sep 14 2021 12:50 pm

I still have all my old records and will (very rarely) buy new ones, but I really don't listen to them. I don't think they sound "better" than CDs or FLACs and are so inconvenient. I just love (much) of the album art on

Yeah, I don't really think records sound better either.. I've also heard that due to the limited amount of space available on a vinyl album, some vinyl versions of songs are shorter than the version available for CD & other formats.

Another thing I heeard not too long ago, that I didn't really think much about before, is that the inner grooves of a record isn't as able to reproduce high frequencies as well as the outer grooves. Since records turn at a constant speed, there's less and less area as the groove gets toward the center, which means less surface available to record audio information.

those beautiful 12" sleeves. It is a hobby though and more power to you! If you find out how those laser record players work/sound, be sure to let us know. :-)

I doubt I'll find out any time soon, due to those laser turn tables being so expensive. I've never actually seen any place selling them in my area either.

Nightfox

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to All on Tue Sep 14 2021 09:05:19

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a curiosity standpoint.

But in reality it kinda missed the point of Vinyl 8-)

A good clean, Anti Static 180g LP is pretty darn quiet. 8-)


8-)

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Ed Vance on Sat Sep 11 2021 10:18 pm

A while ago, I saw something online about this ELP laser turntable: https://www.elpj.com

It's a record player that uses a laser (rather than a stylus) to read the grooves on the disc. The
advantage would be that since it doesn't make physical contact with the record, it won't wear out the
record. Also, they say the sound should be really good since there shouldn't be any hiss from a stylus
sliding across the record surface. Also, I think this turntable would be a good candidate to be used for
digitizing records.

I've been curious to try one, but they're so expensive. They cost at least $10,000 (which seems a bit
ridiculous to me).. Also, I've read some reviews saying the sound isn't as good as you might think, and
that the laser will also pick up dust and translate it to audio, which isn't really a good thing; so the
record would need to be very clean before being played in this player.

If I could find a laser turntable like that for cheap, I might be tempted to buy one and get into collecting
records.

Nightfox

Regards..Geo
ooooOOOOoooo

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Tue Sep 14 2021 01:06 pm

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Sep 14 2021 12:50 pm

I still have all my old records and will (very rarely) buy new ones, but I really don't listen to them. I don't think they sound "better" than CDs or FLACs and are so inconvenient. I just love (much) of the album art on

i think records sound more 'earthy' and just better.

but you guys like rush. ew.

guess you can hear that guy's elf voice better with your digital recordings. ---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hey Digital Man;

Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

I still have all my old records and will (very rarely) buy new ones,
but I really don't listen to them. I don't think they sound "better"
than CDs or FLACs and are so inconvenient. I just love (much) of the
album art on those beautiful 12" sleeves. It is a hobby though and more power to you! If you find out how those laser record players
work/sound, be sure to let us know. :-) --

I've found over the years that almost everything involved with a conventional record can affect the sound quality - or lack there of. A belt driven table
vs magnetic for example can add a lot more table rumble through the tone arm. Then you have stylus and cartridge... both of which lose tone with age.

Last but not least, the quality of the preamp which is the final link in the audio chain. A better preamp typically will have better audio. Most people don't put any thought into the preamp especially since the typical consumer buys a unit with one built in and assumes it'll produce decent sound. An example of a very poor unit with a low-end preamp would be a "close-n-play"
as I show my age lol, and a step above that would be almost any average consumer grade disk "changer" unit. Most of those units also had a rubber
wheel type gear that spun the platter and often the most noisiest.

... Blood is too precious a commodity.-Bram Stoker's Dracula
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Hello Nightfox!

** On Tuesday 14.09.21 - 13:06, Nightfox wrote to Digital Man:

Another thing I heeard not too long ago, that I didn't
really think much about before, is that the inner grooves
of a record isn't as able to reproduce high frequencies as
well as the outer grooves. Since records turn at a
constant speed, there's less and less area as the groove
gets toward the center, which means less surface available
to record audio information.

I've never heard of that. I've heard a lot of issues about
recordings from audiophiles and some audio engineers, but not
the thing about high-frequencies vs area wrt to inner grooves.

Vinyl (on a prestine system) has always sounded better for me
compared to the early CDs pressings that came out in the 80s.


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Hello Geo!

** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 10:12, Geo wrote to Nightfox:

A while ago, I saw something online about this ELP laser
turntable: https://www.elpj.com

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a curiosity
standpoint. But in reality it kinda missed the point of
Vinyl 8-)

The elpj site claims that their laser solution produces
"analog" output. My browser (FF on XP) doesn't render all the
pages on that site - but the How It Works would be interesting
if I could read it.

A good clean, Anti Static 180g LP is pretty darn quiet. 8-)

I concur. A good quality vinyl on a fine system (decent needle
and cartridge) is a pleasure to witness.


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Hello Nightfox!

** On Tuesday 14.09.21 - 09:05, Nightfox wrote to All:

A while ago, I saw something online about this ELP laser
turntable: https://www.elpj.com

It's a record player that uses a laser (rather than a
stylus) to read the grooves on the disc. The advantage
would be that since it doesn't make physical contact with
the record, it won't wear out the record. [...]

Thanks for sharing that. The idea of using a laser to read the
grooves of vinyl records sounds like one of those "why didn't I
think of that" moments.

The site seems to be thrown together (using a basic Wordpress
theme) and hasn't been cleaned up properly. How long has this
laser turntable been around? I had no idea that this was
getting explored back in the 80s. "The first working model,
the Finial LT-1 (Laser Turntable-1), was completed in time for
the 1986 CES. The prototype revealed an interesting flaw of
laser turntables: they are so accurate that they play every
particle of dirt and dust on the record, instead of pushing
them aside as a conventional stylus would." [https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable]

It is interesting to read that the specs indicate "black vinyl"
only. I guess that leaves out the fancy LPs in alternate
colours - for now.

Also, they say the sound should be really good since there
shouldn't be any hiss from a stylus sliding across the
record surface. Also, I think this turntable would be a
good candidate to be used for digitizing records.

I was positioning myself to digitize my LP collection a few
years ago, but when Spotify came along, the whole idea seemed
moot. A Spotify subscription is far less than the cost of time
to handle every record manually, and adding all the meta data /
tags labelling on all the recordings properly, plus the cost of
additional storage, plus a decent backup regiment.

I've been curious to try one, but they're so expensive.
They cost at least $10,000 (which seems a bit ridiculous to
me)..

They may be made available at audio shows or at certain hi-fi
shops, soon.

Also, I've read some reviews saying the sound isn't
as good as you might think, and that the laser will also
pick up dust and translate it to audio, which isn't really
a good thing; so the record would need to be very clean
before being played in this player.

The 1st generation CD players did a horrible job with CDs when
they first came out.

If I could find a laser turntable like that for cheap, I
might be tempted to buy one and get into collecting
records.

No need to buy the laser turntable just yet. Audition one if/
when you get a chance. The cost of LPs is crazy at $20+

Further into the wiki article above: "A similar technology is
to scan or photograph the grooves of the record, and then
reconstruct the sound from the modulation of the groove
revealed by the image." ..now THAT sounds like an interesting
(obvious) approach too.


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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Wed Sep 15 2021 12:20 am

I was positioning myself to digitize my LP collection a few
years ago, but when Spotify came along, the whole idea seemed
moot. A Spotify subscription is far less than the cost of time
to handle every record manually, and adding all the meta data /
tags labelling on all the recordings properly, plus the cost of
additional storage, plus a decent backup regiment.

I don't think a streaming subscription is a substitute of having your own copy. My father used to brag of
some films he had available at Amazon Prime for so cheap, until they took those down of the platform.

I have taken the time to digitize my VHS or otherwise obtain quality digital copies of my multimedia
because of that reason. You cannot count things to be available on the Internet forever, even in the
Pirate underdarks.

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Wed Sep 15 2021 12:20 am

theme) and hasn't been cleaned up properly. How long has this
laser turntable been around? I had no idea that this was
getting explored back in the 80s. "The first working model,

I don't know how long this has been around. I think I first came across that laser turntable maybe 8 years ago.. Interesting if it was being explored in the 80s. I'd think the price would be less than it is if that were the case.

It is interesting to read that the specs indicate "black vinyl"
only. I guess that leaves out the fancy LPs in alternate
colours - for now.

Yeah, I guess that's not too surprising..

I was positioning myself to digitize my LP collection a few
years ago, but when Spotify came along, the whole idea seemed
moot. A Spotify subscription is far less than the cost of time
to handle every record manually, and adding all the meta data /
tags labelling on all the recordings properly, plus the cost of additional storage, plus a decent backup regiment.

The advantage is it's your own copy of the music. I don't like to rely on streaming services all the time.. Also, storage is cheap. I'd probably prefer to have a CD version though. I ripped my whole CD collection in 2009, and I sometimes still buy music on CD and rip it on my PC.

The 1st generation CD players did a horrible job with CDs when
they first came out.

I imagine that may be why some people think vinyl sounds better.

No need to buy the laser turntable just yet. Audition one if/
when you get a chance. The cost of LPs is crazy at $20+

I'm not sure where I'd be able to borrow one. I haven't seen any in my area.

Further into the wiki article above: "A similar technology is
to scan or photograph the grooves of the record, and then
reconstruct the sound from the modulation of the groove
revealed by the image." ..now THAT sounds like an interesting
(obvious) approach too.

I've heard of that being done too. I think it would be interesting to have a music collection in the form of photos (as PNGs or JPGs) rather than audio files. I wonder if you could even save some drive space that way.. I wonder if a photo of a vinyl album would be smaller than individual FLAC or MP3 files for the same album.

Nightfox

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Geo to Nightfox on Wed Sep 15 2021 10:12 am

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a curiosity standpoint.

But in reality it kinda missed the point of Vinyl 8-)

How does the laser turntable miss the point of vinyl?

Nightfox

Hello Geo;

Geo wrote to Nightfox <=-

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a curiosity standpoint.
But in reality it kinda missed the point of Vinyl 8-)
A good clean, Anti Static 180g LP is pretty darn quiet. 8-)

I run mine through not one but 2 limiter/compressors and they sound *very* clean... as long as the platter isn't warped <G>

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Geo on Tue Sep 14 2021 23:41:00

Hi Ogg

A good clean, Anti Static 180g LP is pretty darn quiet. 8-)

I concur. A good quality vinyl on a fine system (decent needle
and cartridge) is a pleasure to witness.

Yeah, my Band just recieved the test pressings for our new albumn, so can't get much fresher vinyl than that 8-)

They sound great.8-)

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to Geo on Wed Sep 15 2021 09:01:56

Hi Nightfox,

It would certainly be interesting to hear from a curiosity standpoint.

But in reality it kinda missed the point of Vinyl 8-)

How does the laser turntable miss the point of vinyl?

Nightfox

I simply meant that these days its about experiencing the vinyl along with any imperfections. Like we did many years ago.

If one wants pristine, there is always streaming or CD.

One major benefit though of Laser I guess is NO more wear on the LP's. 8-)

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Tue Sep 14 2021 23:35:00

Hi,

Another thing I heeard not too long ago, that I didn't
really think much about before, is that the inner grooves
of a record isn't as able to reproduce high frequencies as
well as the outer grooves. Since records turn at a
constant speed, there's less and less area as the groove
gets toward the center, which means less surface available
to record audio information.

I've never heard of that. I've heard a lot of issues about
recordings from audiophiles and some audio engineers, but not
the thing about high-frequencies vs area wrt to inner grooves.

This can be overcome by proper tracking adjustment with a good protractor 8-)

Vinyl (on a prestine system) has always sounded better for me
compared to the early CDs pressings that came out in the 80s.

Deffinitly. 8-)

I guess it just different not necessarily better. Its all in the Mastering I rekon. 8-)

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Hello Nightfox!

** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 08:33, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

laser turntable been around? I had no idea that this was
getting explored back in the 80s.[...]

I don't know how long this has been around. I think I
first came across that laser turntable maybe 8 years ago..
Interesting if it was being explored in the 80s. I'd think
the price would be less than it is if that were the case.

According to the article the first models were about $35K.
Now, they are $10K; that's a pretty good reduction! LOL

I was positioning myself to digitize my LP collection a few
years ago, but when Spotify came along, [...]

The advantage is it's your own copy of the music. I don't
like to rely on streaming services all the time..

Spotify offers a download option. Then, it's not required to
rely on an internet connection at all.

What's the point of recording and filing the tracks of an LP
when I can get exactly the same thing from Spotify in download
mode?

Also, storage is cheap. I'd probably prefer to have a CD
version though. I ripped my whole CD collection in 2009,
and I sometimes still buy music on CD and rip it on my PC.

Storage is indeed cheap. I'll still seek out an occassional
actual CD too.

The 1st generation CD players did a horrible job with CDs
when they first came out.

I imagine that may be why some people think vinyl sounds
better.

That's part of it. The early products had a two-fold problem:
the DACs in earlier models were poor, and the mastering of CDs
was not well done.

This article is a good read and explains some issues that even
persist to this day:

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/as-we-see-it-tips-thoughts/65-road-
to-hell

No need to buy the laser turntable just yet. Audition one
if/when you get a chance. The cost of LPs is crazy at
$20+

I'm not sure where I'd be able to borrow one. I haven't
seen any in my area.

Not borrow. I mean, go to a facility or audio shop that has
demo rooms. But even at $10K per player, I doubt that any
independent shop would bother to get one.

Further into the wiki article above: "A similar technology is
to scan or photograph the grooves of the record, and then
reconstruct the sound [...]

I've heard of that being done too. I think it would be
interesting to have a music collection in the form of
photos (as PNGs or JPGs) rather than audio files. I wonder
if you could even save some drive space that way.. I
wonder if a photo of a vinyl album would be smaller than
individual FLAC or MP3 files for the same album.

I wonder about the data-sizes with the photo approach too.

The key here is to extract the data established by the vinyl
grooves and store it in digital format for repeat listens. But
the designers of those players aren't thinking of that for the
player; they are wanting to replicate the real-time play of the
vinyl, at each and every play.

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Hello Arelor!

** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 09:04, Arelor wrote to Ogg:

I was positioning myself to digitize my LP collection a few
years ago, but when Spotify came along, the whole idea seemed
moot. A Spotify subscription is far less than the cost of time

I don't think a streaming subscription is a substitute of
having your own copy. My father used to brag of some films
he had available at Amazon Prime for so cheap, until they
took those down of the platform.

But my point is that I *do* have my own originals. It just
doesn't make sense to go through the time and effort to make
copies when I can get them from Spotify.

Should the day arrive when a certain recording would nolonger
be available on Spotify.. no problem - *then* I could dig out
my original and make a copy of that.

It just doesn't make sense to digitize a 1100 LP collection
when the digitization of the mast majority of it is already
done by someone else.

I have taken the time to digitize my VHS or otherwise
obtain quality digital copies of my multimedia because of
that reason. You cannot count things to be available on the
Internet forever, even in the Pirate underdarks.

Makes sense to put VHS onto a newer medium anyway. I have a
DVR recorder that can faciliate the output of a VHS player so
that I could record the content of the VHS onto the HDD and
then burn the file to DVD. But some commercial VHS movie tapes
output a scramble signal and can't be copied that way.

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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Wed Sep 15 2021 11:31 pm

laser turntable been around? I had no idea that this was
getting explored back in the 80s.[...]

According to the article the first models were about $35K.
Now, they are $10K; that's a pretty good reduction! LOL

That's a good deal then.. :P

What's the point of recording and filing the tracks of an LP
when I can get exactly the same thing from Spotify in download
mode?

I sometimes forget the streaming apps offer a download option. But can you play the downloaded file with any music player app, or can you only use Spotify to play the downloaded file? I somehow doubt they'd just let people freely download music files to be shared and played with any software.. I'd imagine there may be some DRM involved, or locking the file so it can't be played with anything else.

I imagine that may be why some people think vinyl sounds
better.

That's part of it. The early products had a two-fold problem:
the DACs in earlier models were poor, and the mastering of CDs
was not well done.

And over the years, record studios have released remastered CDs of many albums. I tend to replace my old copies with remasters, but honestly I usually can't tell much difference in the sound.

I read an article a while ago saying that with the repeated remasters over the years, one thing they've tended to do is increase the volume, which has the negative effect of reducing the sound quality. Volume increases on remasters is something I haven't really noticed much, but probably because I haven't paid much attention..

This article is a good read and explains some issues that even
persist to this day:

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/as-we-see-it-tips-thoughts/65-road-
to-hell

That's interesting.. And as I've occasionally digitized a few of my cassette tapes (they were music unavailable on CD as well as some personal recordings), I find that kind of thing interesting.

I've heard of that being done too. I think it would be
interesting to have a music collection in the form of
photos (as PNGs or JPGs) rather than audio files. I wonder
if you could even save some drive space that way.. I
wonder if a photo of a vinyl album would be smaller than
individual FLAC or MP3 files for the same album.

I wonder about the data-sizes with the photo approach too.

The key here is to extract the data established by the vinyl
grooves and store it in digital format for repeat listens. But
the designers of those players aren't thinking of that for the
player; they are wanting to replicate the real-time play of the
vinyl, at each and every play.

If you extract the data from the photos and save them, you're back at having a collection of MP3 and/or FLAC audio files (or perhaps some other audio format).

Nightfox

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Arelor on Wed Sep 15 2021 11:58 pm

Makes sense to put VHS onto a newer medium anyway. I have a
DVR recorder that can faciliate the output of a VHS player so
that I could record the content of the VHS onto the HDD and
then burn the file to DVD. But some commercial VHS movie tapes
output a scramble signal and can't be copied that way.

If replacing VHS copies, I think it can make sense to buy the DVDs or blu-rays if available. They usually do a process so that the image takes advantage of the mediums' higher resolution. If you record VHS onto DVD etc., then you're still really only getting a 480p(?) quality image from the VHS tape.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Brian Rogers to Digital Man on Wed Sep 15 2021 12:47 am

Last but not least, the quality of the preamp which is the final link in the audio chain. A better preamp typically will have better audio.

I don't disagree about the preamp, but the actual "final link" in the audio chain is your eardrums. And mine haven't aged well. Decades of playing drums in loud rock bands and shooting big guns, sometimes without hearing protection, has had its toll. But I can still hear the difference between good and high fidelity, just not nearly as pronounced as when I was much younger.

Oh, and just before your eardrums comes the speakers. :-)
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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to Ogg on Thu Sep 16 2021 09:32 am

Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Arelor on Wed Sep 15 2021 11:58 pm

Makes sense to put VHS onto a newer medium anyway. I have a
DVR recorder that can faciliate the output of a VHS player so
that I could record the content of the VHS onto the HDD and
then burn the file to DVD. But some commercial VHS movie tapes
output a scramble signal and can't be copied that way.

If replacing VHS copies, I think it can make sense to buy the DVDs or blu-ra if available. They usually do a process so that the image takes advantage o the mediums' higher resolution. If you record VHS onto DVD etc., then you'r still really only getting a 480p(?) quality image from the VHS tape.

Nightfox

I agree that getting a recent digital copy that has been properly transefer is optimal, but from my end, I encounter two issues:

1) I am not buying a film I already own, even if for upgrading from a format to another.

2) Many times, they botch the transfers by including deleted scenes that were excluded from the original for a good reason.

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Hello Digital Man!

** On Thursday 16.09.21 - 12:57, Digital Man wrote to Brian Rogers:

I don't disagree about the preamp, but the actual "final link" in the audio chain is your eardrums. And mine haven't aged well. [...]

Oh, and just before your eardrums comes the speakers. :-)

And oh, guess what? Our brains process the sound digitally!
..you know, neurons firing, brain interpreting a sound, etc.



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Hello Digital Man;

Digital Man wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I don't disagree about the preamp, but the actual "final link" in the audio chain is your eardrums. And mine haven't aged well. Decades of playing drums in loud rock bands and shooting big guns, sometimes
without hearing protection, has had its toll. But I can still hear the difference between good and high fidelity, just not nearly as
pronounced as when I was much younger.

Ahhh quite true that. I'm surprised mine have held up for as good as they
have although there are others who would argue the fact. I've always enjoyed music I can feel not just hear. I've been somewhat lucky in that regard I guess. Just not lucky in every other area of aging!

Oh, and just before your eardrums comes the speakers. :-)

I used to have a set of Peavy SP-3s... they had a light inside of them on
the horn to help absorb some of the clipping. To me that was almost like having internal strobe lights. I did end up getting a set of RatShack Mach I (the original Mach Is) at a decent price. One of the ultimate in speakers one could get. Talk about an insane frequency response!

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Hello Arelor!

** On Thursday 16.09.21 - 14:56, Arelor wrote to Nightfox:

If replacing VHS copies, I think it can make sense to buy
the DVDs or blu-ra if available. They usually do a process
so that the image takes advantage o the mediums' higher
resolution. If you record VHS onto DVD etc., then you'r
still really only getting a 480p(?) quality image from the
VHS tape.

I agree that getting a recent digital copy that has been
properly transefer is optimal, but from my end, I encounter
two issues:

1) I am not buying a film I already own, even if for
upgrading from a format to another.

And.. sometimes there is a modest feeling of satisfaction of
having made your own transfer/copy in your own time using your
own resources.

I did something similar with a Kate Bush VHS not long ago.
Apparently, the DVD version was next to non-existent. So, it
was rather interesting to build separate recordings of each
song (they're still on the HDD DVR machine) and now be able to
watch anyone at any time instead of end-to-end on VHS.
Meanwhile, I could produce a DVD where I could pick any video
selectively.

The max 480i from the VHS source doesn't bother me, considering
that I didn't have to spend extra $s for my own DVD version.

2) Many times, they botch the transfers by including
deleted scenes that were excluded from the original for a
good reason.

You mean "extended Director's cuts"? The DVD versions of old
VHS films that I've encountered have had the "deleted scenes"
as a special feature which could be ignored.


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Hello Nightfox!

** On Thursday 16.09.21 - 09:32, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

Makes sense to put VHS onto a newer medium anyway. I have
a DVR recorder that can faciliate the output of a VHS
player [...]

If replacing VHS copies, I think it can make sense to buy
the DVDs or blu-rays if available. They usually do a
process so that the image takes advantage of the mediums'
higher resolution. If you record VHS onto DVD etc., then
you're still really only getting a 480p(?) quality image
from the VHS tape.

If I happen to come across a shrinkwrapped $5 DVD version of a
film that I may still have on VHS, then maybe I'll buy it. But
I wouldn't spend $20+ on a DVD version.

I can count the VHS movies that I own on two hands. And, I'm in
no hurry with more conversions. If I'm in a mood to watch one
of those VHS movies since having acquired the DVR HDD machine,
I'll start the recording process and watch the HDD version.
And if I need to recover space on the HDD, I'll burn the film
to DVD.


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Hello Geo!

** On Thursday 16.09.21 - 09:47, Geo wrote to Ogg:

I guess it just different not necessarily better. Its all
in the Mastering I rekon. 8-)

OMG, is it ever!

It may not be easy to know who was the mastering engineer of a
recording especially all we do is get material from a stream
these days, but who did the mastering could be all the
difference in quality.

I'm the owner of a few thousand CDs since the advent of the CD
player. In time I discovered a common denominator among the
best sounding CDs - the best are mastered by Bob Clearmountain
or Bob Ludwig, or Bernie Grundman. This information was easily
noted on physical CDs but not so much now from streaming
sources. That's sad because anything by those guys no matter
what the genre - was/is great music.


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Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Ogg to Geo on Fri Sep 17 2021 21:51:00

Hi Ogg

I'm the owner of a few thousand CDs since the advent of the CD
player. In time I discovered a common denominator among the
best sounding CDs - the best are mastered by Bob Clearmountain
or Bob Ludwig, or Bernie Grundman. This information was easily
noted on physical CDs but not so much now from streaming
sources. That's sad because anything by those guys no matter
what the genre - was/is great music.

Thats where Tidal has been ahead of the Game, They make a concerted effort to include as much Meta Data as they can get with their streams.

8-)

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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Ogg to Arelor on Fri Sep 17 2021 09:31 pm

2) Many times, they botch the transfers by including
deleted scenes that were excluded from the original for a
good reason.

You mean "extended Director's cuts"? The DVD versions of old
VHS films that I've encountered have had the "deleted scenes"
as a special feature which could be ignored.

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip the added scenes.

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often times, the Spanish voice actors are no
longer available for the voiceovers, so the additional scenes get dubbed by different voice actors
than the rest of the movie and it sucks sucks sucks.

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Hello Ogg;

Ogg wrote to Geo <=-

I guess it just different not necessarily better. Its all
in the Mastering I rekon. 8-)

OMG, is it ever!

[snip]

One also must take into consideration the tuning of the various insturments used by the individual band members of a group. Nigel Olson has a specific sound to his drums say than does Neal Pert...and so on.

... Odo, is there any more Jell-O in the fridge? Odo?? Odo??!!
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Re: If replacing VHS copies..
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Sep 18 2021 11:33 am

Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Ogg to Arelor on Fri Sep 17 2021 09:31 pm

2) Many times, they botch the transfers by including
deleted scenes that were excluded from the original for a
good reason.

You mean "extended Director's cuts"? The DVD versions of old
VHS films that I've encountered have had the "deleted scenes"
as a special feature which could be ignored.

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip the added scenes

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often times, the Spanish v longer available for the voiceovers, so the additional scenes get dubbed by than the rest of the movie and it sucks sucks sucks.

--
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In the cases I've run into films with cut footage edited back in, they DVD or Blu Ray allows you to view either version unless it is specifically sold as a directors or editors cut.

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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Sep 18 2021 11:33 am

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip the added scenes.

I've found that often times, a DVD (or blu-ray) movie offers you a choice to watch the theatrical release or the extended release(s). Sometimes both versions are on the same disc and there's a menu option, and other times, there are multiple discs with the different versions of the movie. And other times, the deleted scenes are a special feature rather than being added back into the movie.

Nightfox

Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Sep 18 2021 11:33 am

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip the added scenes.

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often times, the Spanish voice actors are no longer available for the voiceovers, so the additional scenes get dubbed by different voice actors than the rest of the movie and it sucks sucks sucks.

they always mess with the releases. i've seen a movie and then seen it later on dvd and it's missing a scene or it has added scenes. i havent seen it in a while, but it happens. when i've seen it, i have no idea why they do it. it doesnt contribute anything.
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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Sep 18 2021 10:58 pm

Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Sep 18 2021 11:33 am

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip the added scenes.

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often times, the Spanis voice actors are no longer available for the voiceovers, so the additiona scenes get dubbed by different voice actors than the rest of the movie an it sucks sucks sucks.

they always mess with the releases. i've seen a movie and then seen it late on dvd and it's missing a scene or it has added scenes. i havent seen it in while, but it happens. when i've seen it, i have no idea why they do it. it doesnt contribute anything.

I hate it the most when they mess with the dubbing.

The Robin Hood film by Kevin Costner is one of my childhood movies. I watched it so often when I was a kid than the dialogues are fireburnt in my brain. I have the movie recorded on a VHS from TV.

My mother got me the DVD many years later. The movie is the same, but they remade ALL of the Spanish dubbing. Most of the dubbers are actually the same voice actors, but the small infections in the voice are not identical. Everytime I watch the DVD it grinds my brain into thin paste because the voices from the DVD do not match the voices my mind remembers.

Why, oh, why?!

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Hello Arelor!

** On Saturday 18.09.21 - 11:33, Arelor wrote to Ogg:

You mean "extended Director's cuts"? [...]

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip
the added scenes.

Having no option sounds brutal.

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often
times, the Spanish voice actors are no longer available for
the voiceovers, so the additional scenes get dubbed by
different voice actors than the rest of the movie and it
sucks sucks sucks.

Do you *have* to watch the Spanish versions? I thought that
your command of the English language was pretty good - or, does
that just apply to the written English?


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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Ogg to Arelor on Mon Sep 20 2021 12:27 am

Hello Arelor!

** On Saturday 18.09.21 - 11:33, Arelor wrote to Ogg:

You mean "extended Director's cuts"? [...]

Yes, but often the DVD does nto give you the option to skip
the added scenes.

Having no option sounds brutal.

Thsi is specially bad in SPanish releases because often
times, the Spanish voice actors are no longer available for
the voiceovers, so the additional scenes get dubbed by
different voice actors than the rest of the movie and it
sucks sucks sucks.

Do you *have* to watch the Spanish versions? I thought that
your command of the English language was pretty good - or, does
that just apply to the written English?

I often watch the films in English, but here is the catch:

I often watch DVDs with family or friends, and those need to watch it in Spanish, so watching it in English is not an option.

Some DVDs (not many, but some) come with only an audio track, so you cannot select language.

Many times, the Spanish dubbing is supperior to original voices and it sucks to ditch it out in order to have a consistent experience.

Then there are Australian films and the like, which are not in English, no matter the falsehoods they spread. Australian is to English what Mexican is to Spanish!


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sat Sep 18 2021 05:47 pm

I've found that often times, a DVD (or blu-ray) movie offers you a choice to watch the theatrical release or the extended release(s). Sometimes both versions are on the same disc and there's a menu option, and other times, there are multiple discs with the different versions of the movie. And other times, the deleted scenes are a special feature rather than being added back into the movie.

My wife loves F.R.I.E.N.D.S. We have the series on DVD, they cut out so much on the streaming "TV" versions. The DVD versions have a lot of cut jokes.

That being said it's easier for us to watch on streaming and so we still do inspite of that.

---TLM

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Hello Arelor!

** On Monday 20.09.21 - 03:48, Arelor wrote to Ogg:

Do you *have* to watch the Spanish versions? [...]

I often watch the films in English, but here is the catch:

I often watch DVDs with family or friends, and those need
to watch it in Spanish, so watching it in English is not an
option.

Ah.. thought so. Having brandy during a film is more fun with
friends.

Many times, the Spanish dubbing is supperior to original
voices [...]

Now *that* I did not expect to hear.

Then there are Australian films and the like, which are not
in English, no matter the falsehoods they spread.
Australian is to English what Mexican is to Spanish!

LOL. Ozzie english is rather quaint. Specific lingo might be
tricky to follow, but the accent doesn't trouble me.


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OGG wrote to ARELOR <=-

But my point is that I *do* have my own originals. It just
doesn't make sense to go through the time and effort to make
copies when I can get them from Spotify.

Should the day arrive when a certain recording would nolonger
be available on Spotify.. no problem - *then* I could dig out
my original and make a copy of that.

Statler Brothers - Maple Street Memories - the SONG (that was
a single release) is available everywhere, but the album? Nope!

Side A is something you can put on and close your eyes and you're
THERE. I have it, still, and one day will get it transferred
over... :-)




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Re: If replacing VHS copies...
By: Ogg to Arelor on Mon Sep 20 2021 08:38 pm

Many times, the Spanish dubbing is supperior to original
voices [...]

Now *that* I did not expect to hear.

Dubbing is one of the few things we Spaniards do well. The other things we do well are making Gazpacho, taking naps and crashing Spain into the ground.

Dub actors in here receive a lot of international recognizion and acclaim. They are so good when compared to regular Spanish actors (the ones who make movies) that there are cases in which we get the Spanish actor voiced over by an Spanish voice actor. Because the voice actor is great and the regular actor is a sucker who is on the screen because of some political dealing, usually.

--
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Nightfox wrote to Ogg <=-

If replacing VHS copies, I think it can make sense to buy the DVDs or blu-rays if available. They usually do a process so that the image
takes advantage of the mediums' higher resolution. If you record VHS
onto DVD etc., then you're still really only getting a 480p(?) quality image from the VHS tape.

I find it interesting that with some TV shows that broadcast in 480p,
they're able to remaster wide-screen editions and do some color correction
in the process. Star Trek: TNG and DS9 are apparently getting remastered,
and the widescreen shots look pretty good.

What I didn't like was having re-mastered graphics in ST:TOS while keeping
the original low-res film shots. It would have been an amusing easter egg to see them retcon the U.S.S. Constellation's number in the remake (the
original Constellation was NCC-1017 because they kit-bashed a storebought Enterprise kit and re-arranged NCC-1701...)
... See you on the other side.
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Arelor wrote to Ogg <=-

I often watch the films in English, but here is the catch:

I often watch DVDs with family or friends, and those need to watch it
in Spanish, so watching it in English is not an option.

One of my favorite movies is "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" starring David Bowie, Tom Conti and Ryuichi Sakamoto. It's been out of print for years, so
I set up an eBay search for it.

I finally found it - as "Feliz Navidad, Senor Lawrence". Cheap. It was the correct region, so I bought it. Put it in my computer to rip it and read up
on foreign language versus alternate language subtitles. DIalog is in
English, and subtitles are in Spanish.

There's a lot of Japanese dialog that drives the story, so watching it and trying to translate Spanish subtitles of Japanese dialog was quite a mental chore.



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Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Sep 17 2021 08:00 am

I find it interesting that with some TV shows that broadcast in 480p, they're able to remaster wide-screen editions and do some color correction in the process. Star Trek: TNG and DS9 are apparently getting remastered, and the widescreen shots look pretty good.

Star Trek: TNG was already remastered, for blu-ray, and the entire show was released on blu-ray from 2012 to 2015. And they kept the image in 4:3 format rather than making it widescreen - They didn't shoot the series in a way that would allow them to make it widescreen. If they expanded the scans of the shot, you'd see camera/audio equipment or the edges of the sets, etc. that you aren't supposed to see. And cropping the image to produce a widescreen image isn't ideal either, since you'd be losing part of the image.

However, they have not remastered DS9. I've read that one reason is because DS9 was apparently shot on videotape, which doesn't lend itself well to a remaster (whereas TNG was shot on 35mm film, making TNG a better candidate for a remaster). Also, apparently DS9 used computerized special effects more often than TNG, and the 3D models & such used for the special effects are difficult or impossible to find (they may have been lost). The special effects were rendered at basically 480p resolution, so to remaster it, they'd have to re-create the special effects from scratch and re-render them in high definition. Also, unfortunately the TNG remaster has apparently not sold well enough for them to consider doing the job to remaster DS9 properly.

Since TNG was filmed on 35mm film, they were able to gather all the 35mm film negatives and re-scan them in high definition before adjusting the color & picture, etc.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Sep 23 2021 13:47:04

I find it interesting that with some TV shows that broadcast in
480p, they're able to remaster wide-screen editions and do some
color correction in the process. Star Trek: TNG and DS9 are
apparently getting remastered, and the widescreen shots look pretty
good.

Star Trek: TNG was already remastered, for blu-ray, and the entire show was released on blu-ray from 2012 to 2015. And they kept the image in 4:3

What does ANY of this have to do with Turntables and LP's???????
-+-

Lupine Furmen
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Dallas

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Hello Lupine Furmen!

** On Thursday 23.09.21 - 17:50, Lupine Furmen wrote to Nightfox:

I find it interesting that with some TV shows that [...]

Star Trek: TNG was already remastered, for blu-ray, and [...]

What does ANY of this have to do with Turntables and LP's???????
-+-

Sometimes we forget to adjust the Subj when the convo veers on
a new course. /

I try to do my best:

https://susepaste.org/54263146



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Re: Re: Turntables and LPs
By: Lupine Furmen to Nightfox on Thu Sep 23 2021 05:50 pm

Star Trek: TNG was already remastered, for blu-ray, and the entire
show was released on blu-ray from 2012 to 2015. And they kept the
image in 4:3

What does ANY of this have to do with Turntables and LP's???????

Thread drift.. It happens often.

Nightfox

Re: when hobbies take a new turn
By: Ogg to Lupine Furmen on Fri Sep 24 2021 07:33:00

This whole thing actually reminds me that I really need to find the time to hook up my USB turntable and start getting my records all converted to digital while they are still playable.
-+-

Lupine Furmen
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Dallas

... I only touch base with reality on an as-needed basis!

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Hello Lupine Furmen!

** On Friday 24.09.21 - 13:30, Lupine Furmen wrote to Ogg:

This whole thing actually reminds me that I really need to
find the time to hook up my USB turntable and start
getting my records all converted to digital while they are
still playable. -+-

And there can be some great rewards after that. Some CD or
streaming versions are not like the original LP releases.

One of the tracks on, Chris de Burgh's Spanish Train and Other
Stories LP features a longer ending and a special effect near
the end. That ending is not found on alternate media.

A friend of mine noticed the ommission too and said, "Chris de
Burgh's " A Spaceman Came Travelling" has a neat
instrumental after a pause at the end of the track that is on
the LP but is missing from the CD. It always annoyed me very
much because I thought is was key to the song."

Wednesday's, Last Kiss, the harmonies sound very different on
the 45 RPM version which I have compared to the Spotify
version.

Of my 1100 LPs, a few dozen are surely unique and not found on
alternative media. It would be cool to have some of them
digital so that they could be more portable and be able to que
them up at a whim of the moment.

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Ogg wrote to Lupine Furmen <=-

And there can be some great rewards after that. Some CD or
streaming versions are not like the original LP releases.

One of the tracks on, Chris de Burgh's Spanish Train and Other
Stories LP features a longer ending and a special effect near
the end. That ending is not found on alternate media.

Paul Weller's debut solo CD has a "vignette" between two of the tracks
that's the sound of a needle hitting the parking track, the resonation of someone lifting a turntable's dust cover, taking the needle off, flipping
the record, placing the needle back on the record and closing the dust
cover. I'd taped the CD to listen in my car and thought I'd been really
sloppy recording it!




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Hello JIMMY ANDERSON!

** On Monday 20.09.21 - 22:42, JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to OGG:

Should the day arrive when a certain recording would
nolonger be available on Spotify.. no problem - *then* I
could dig out my original and make a copy of that.

Statler Brothers - Maple Street Memories - the SONG (that
was a single release) is available everywhere, but the
album? Nope!

Side A is something you can put on and close your eyes and
you're THERE. I have it, still, and one day will get it
transferred over... :-)

Interesting. One song, available. But not the rest of the
album.

Who knows what barganing goes on in arranging the licensing.

A few CD copies for sale on discogs, but they're not cheap!
Meanwhile, all the tunes are obtainable to purchase as MP3s.

I really wanted to audition the Vollenweider and Friends: 25
Years Live 1982-2007 recording (it was listed briefly on
Spotify) ..but by the time I went to give it a shot, it was
nolonger available to stream.

Same story.. streaming not available, but MP3 purchase, is.

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Hello Brian Rogers!

** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 00:47, Brian Rogers wrote to Digital Man:

I've found over the years that almost everything involved
with a conventional record can affect the sound quality
[...]

[...] Then you have stylus and cartridge... both of which
lose tone with age.

I thought it was just the stylus that would wear out. But
because of the cost, it's just as easy to get a whole new
cartrige+stylus combined.

Last but not least, the quality of the preamp which is the
final link in the audio chain. A better preamp typically
will have better audio. [...]

I've been pretty happy with generic consumer hi-fi AM/FM/
Receiver amp combos. I'm impressed with people's systems that
have dedicated amps for just for LP/CD use, but my listening
spaces have been relatively small over the years (mostly
apartments) so the difference in sound with a audiophile
quality amp vs a receiver would not be much.


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Hello Ogg;

Ogg wrote to Brian Rogers <=-

I thought it was just the stylus that would wear out. But
because of the cost, it's just as easy to get a whole new
cartrige+stylus combined.

Cartridges also wear with age and usage... however the ear tends not to notice the degredation of sound as much as you would with a worn stylus. Typically
you should change your cartridge every 5th or so stylus change. The newer
ones may get you better milage :)

I've been pretty happy with generic consumer hi-fi AM/FM/
Receiver amp combos. I'm impressed with people's systems that
have dedicated amps for just for LP/CD use, but my listening
spaces have been relatively small over the years (mostly
apartments) so the difference in sound with a audiophile
quality amp vs a receiver would not be much.

I'm a bit impressed with the modern stuff tbh. I have an inexpensive soundbar system with 4" subwoofer and it sounds pretty nice for what it is. If Samsung didn't block the FM receiver in the phones I could link it with bluetooth for radio listening... but I can also use the various streaming apps. Still though nothing like old school audiophile stuff. Bass is more natural sounding than electronically generated sound.

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OGG wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

Statler Brothers - Maple Street Memories - the SONG (that
was a single release) is available everywhere, but the
album? Nope!

Side A is something you can put on and close your eyes and
you're THERE. I have it, still, and one day will get it
transferred over... :-)

Interesting. One song, available. But not the rest of the
album.

Who knows what barganing goes on in arranging the licensing.

A few CD copies for sale on discogs, but they're not cheap!
Meanwhile, all the tunes are obtainable to purchase as MP3s.

Okay - you prompted me to look there - yeah, not cheap, but I did
some other looking...

https://mozaart.com/en/r/maple-street-memories-the-statler-brothers

I'm currently listening while typing this reply and cooking
supper. :-)

I really wanted to audition the Vollenweider and Friends: 25
Years Live 1982-2007 recording (it was listed briefly on
Spotify) ..but by the time I went to give it a shot, it was
nolonger available to stream.

Same story.. streaming not available, but MP3 purchase, is.

Might check the site I link above? I did a search but didn't
find it...

And where are the MP3's available for Maple Street Memories? I
WILL be adding that to my collection!!!







... I don't have time to wait for instant gratification.
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Jimmy,

I'm currently listening while typing this reply and cooking
supper. :-)

A true multi-tasker. <G>

... I don't have time to wait for instant gratification.

My, aren't we the impatient one?? <G>

Daryl

... Ah'm Legorn of Borg. Prepare, Ah Say, Prepare to be assimilated, son.
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Hello JIMMY ANDERSON!

** On Thursday 14.10.21 - 16:50, JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to OGG:

https://mozaart.com/en/r/maple-street-memories-the-
statler-brothers

mozzart.com is a clever implementation of the "free" youtube
files wrapped into a dedicated music player/database with
playlist capability. But the youtube audio doesn't exceed
128kbps; probably good enough for the "good enough" listener.

I really wanted to audition the Vollenweider and Friends: 25
Years Live 1982-2007 recording (it was listed briefly..

Same story.. streaming not available, but MP3 purchase, is.

Might check the site I link above? I did a search but didn't
find it...

They would be foolish to allow it "free" on YT and not on
Spotify.

And where are the MP3's available for Maple Street Memories? I
WILL be adding that to my collection!!!

But your mozaart/YT find for Maple Street Memories is
interesting. It seems that one collection of tunes has slipped
the producer's radar.


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